Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this is a fair change to the Motability scheme...

446 replies

BusyBumbling · 25/11/2025 16:44

BBC News - 'Premium' cars like BMW and Mercedes cut from Motability scheme
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd9znkxq47xo

It's still supporting disabled people with the cost of owning a car whilst also supporting the British car industry. I think public opinion has been listened to on both sides and this seems very sensible.
It may also reduce some of the costs of the grants paid from the scheme which were helping fund the upfront cost for premium cars for poorer claimants.

A close-up shot shows three BMW cars parked in a diagonal row on a paved surface. The front car is white with a prominent grille and headlights, while a red BMW sits behind it, followed by another white BMW.

'Premium' cars like BMW and Mercedes cut from Motability scheme

Motability says it will provide vehicles that meet disabled peoples' needs and are safe and affordable.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd9znkxq47xo

OP posts:
Thread gallery
15
ItsInTheSingingOfAStreetCornerChoir · 25/11/2025 21:43

Toddlerteaplease · 25/11/2025 17:08

One of my colleagues had a notability car. For the life of me I can’t see how she qualifies.

This is why I have told only a handful of people that I have a motability vehicle, other people’s judgment. There are times when I present perfectly normally and then others when my legs just do not work properly and I can’t walk. Some colleagues have never seen me at my worst, only my best and the effort it takes to appear ‘normal’ is exhausting. I fully explained to the DWP both my best and worst times and how much of each day I am able to function unaided or not.

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 25/11/2025 21:44

Marshmallow4545 · 25/11/2025 17:18

Look at Child Benefit and how that's means tested. Factually means testing CB raises saves a lot of money. I don't know how anyone can seriously suggest that means testing is prohibitively expensive when we know it isn't.

People have been pointing out the issues with how CB is means tested since it started.

MarbleHunt · 25/11/2025 21:45

ladyamy · 25/11/2025 20:27

Such as? Multiple sclerosis? Cerebral Palsy? Parkinson’s? MND?

Strokes, heart attacks, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and some other auto-immune diseases, irritable bowel syndrome, functional neurological disorders, Bell’s palsy, Behcet’s disease, sudden infant death syndrome, Thoracic outlet syndrome, Tolosa-Hunt syndrome, Still’s disease, sinus tachycardia, multifocal osteomyelitis…

There are many, many debilitating diseases and disabilities no absolute test exists and which doctors diagnose based on the manifestation of symptoms and observations. This is not remotely a unique feature of psychiatry. The reason for this is that our scientific knowledge of some conditions is far better than for others, largely due to proportionate amounts of research funding that have been spent on them (which is not always, sadly, related to their prevalence).

Obviously not all of those listed above would necessitate disability benefits, but some are very serious and truly debilitating and would do so, despite all of them being physical health conditions, not mental health conditions.

UserFront242 · 25/11/2025 21:46

ItsInTheSingingOfAStreetCornerChoir · 25/11/2025 21:43

This is why I have told only a handful of people that I have a motability vehicle, other people’s judgment. There are times when I present perfectly normally and then others when my legs just do not work properly and I can’t walk. Some colleagues have never seen me at my worst, only my best and the effort it takes to appear ‘normal’ is exhausting. I fully explained to the DWP both my best and worst times and how much of each day I am able to function unaided or not.

Explaining to the DWP is the only time you should do that. So many nosy fuckers on here wanting to know the ins and outs of why you need to claim UC or PIP. They are not the DWP and it is nothing to do with them at all.

cannotmakedecisions · 25/11/2025 21:46

DogsAreNice · 25/11/2025 21:22

R.e. PIP I fully feel if someone has a physical disability, chronic pain, or a degenerative disease they are fully deserving of it and need enough so they can meet their medical bills.

If they are ID and cannot understand what's happening around them they need full government support.

But I personally how far can MH excuses go? I'm willing to be challenged on this. People too anxious and scared to use public transport, at some point they have to get over it, learn to interact with real people and behave in the real world.

Or people who "wish they could work but can't die to autism" but have time to go complain about everyone and everything under the sun on MN.

So basically what your saying is that people with mental health problems should just pull themselves together, and, as you said, “ get over it”.
Should people with physical disabilities “get over it” too? If they tried harder then they wouldn’t be in so much pain or maybe their spinal cord would get better?

GeneralPeter · 25/11/2025 21:50

@MarbleHunt I think that's a much better ground to be debating policy on, i.e. what should a decent society fund, what is the return on different types of spending, what are the trends in spending and impact on the total.

We agree we go wrong when policy debates are rooted in misperceptions. This board shows many (most, maybe) people arguing on the grounds that it costs the public nothing extra for a disabled person to buy a car via Motability vs directly, or to buy a more expensive Motabilty car vs a less expensive one.

Regardless of whether that extra is good or bad, it's just false that there is no extra cost.

VAT on Motabiltiy is nil because of a special rule for the scheme. That's different from normal VAT rules where only substantially modified cars benefit. IPT is also nil for Motabiltiy cars, vs full rate for a disabled person buying normally.

These are worth several thousand pounds per car on top of the allowance.

This is why it reminded me of the pension debate. No, NI does not fund the state pension. Similarly, a not-obvious subsidy. You see a parallel with Brexit. I think that using duff figures is unhelpful regardless of what debate, or what side you. Good debate is something like: "we think £1 spent on Motability renders £x in public benefit. Is that multiple still favourable when talking about the marginal subsidy of a luxury car versus a standard one, or are there other areas of public services that would do more with that money?

I suspect the public benefit of subsidising the luxury over the standard car is no longer a good way of spending public funds, versus other options.

(I looked up public spending on disabled people, which grew from 0.2% in 1985 to 1.6% this year, per OBR. So a seven-fold increase. I'm sure there are many reasons, including ageing, but it's not static at all. Where are your figures from?).

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/welfare-spending-disability-benefits

DogsAreNice · 25/11/2025 21:52

LivingDeadGirlUK · 25/11/2025 21:26

But what do you want to do with those people? If they can't work because they can't use public transport then they aren't going to be earning and contributing to society without a car. Or are you saying you think they are lying?

Better to be claiming PIP and working, than claiming benefits and not working.

Fair enough.. If it gets them working that's a good thing. I've never been too scared to take a bus.

UserFront242 · 25/11/2025 21:55

cannotmakedecisions · 25/11/2025 21:46

So basically what your saying is that people with mental health problems should just pull themselves together, and, as you said, “ get over it”.
Should people with physical disabilities “get over it” too? If they tried harder then they wouldn’t be in so much pain or maybe their spinal cord would get better?

Yep, I hate this demonisation against people with MH issues. The brain is an organ, and a mental illness is something that affects the brain.
Telling someone with a mental illness to just pull themselves together would be like telling someone with lower limb issues to just run it off.

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 25/11/2025 21:56

It's beyond me why people care so much about what other people are doing.

If some one gets PIP (notoriously difficult to get despite people's misconceptions), is entitled to a Motability car and can afford the extra payment for a high end car, I'm fine with that - and it's none of my business anyway.

godmum56 · 25/11/2025 21:57

GeneralPeter · 25/11/2025 21:50

@MarbleHunt I think that's a much better ground to be debating policy on, i.e. what should a decent society fund, what is the return on different types of spending, what are the trends in spending and impact on the total.

We agree we go wrong when policy debates are rooted in misperceptions. This board shows many (most, maybe) people arguing on the grounds that it costs the public nothing extra for a disabled person to buy a car via Motability vs directly, or to buy a more expensive Motabilty car vs a less expensive one.

Regardless of whether that extra is good or bad, it's just false that there is no extra cost.

VAT on Motabiltiy is nil because of a special rule for the scheme. That's different from normal VAT rules where only substantially modified cars benefit. IPT is also nil for Motabiltiy cars, vs full rate for a disabled person buying normally.

These are worth several thousand pounds per car on top of the allowance.

This is why it reminded me of the pension debate. No, NI does not fund the state pension. Similarly, a not-obvious subsidy. You see a parallel with Brexit. I think that using duff figures is unhelpful regardless of what debate, or what side you. Good debate is something like: "we think £1 spent on Motability renders £x in public benefit. Is that multiple still favourable when talking about the marginal subsidy of a luxury car versus a standard one, or are there other areas of public services that would do more with that money?

I suspect the public benefit of subsidising the luxury over the standard car is no longer a good way of spending public funds, versus other options.

(I looked up public spending on disabled people, which grew from 0.2% in 1985 to 1.6% this year, per OBR. So a seven-fold increase. I'm sure there are many reasons, including ageing, but it's not static at all. Where are your figures from?).

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/welfare-spending-disability-benefits

Edited

but surely the VAT is only lost if you assume that someone else would buy the SAME car instead of the person leasing it via Motability?

GeneralPeter · 25/11/2025 22:01

godmum56 · 25/11/2025 21:57

but surely the VAT is only lost if you assume that someone else would buy the SAME car instead of the person leasing it via Motability?

A person getting a qualifying permanently-adapted car would pay the same VAT (i.e. nil) whether the use Motability or not.

But for a non-adapted car (which most Motability cars are) there is a VAT difference.

And IPT is nil via Motabiltiy whereas fully payable for anyone (whether or not disabled) otherwise.

If the debate is about standard vs luxury cars, then the amount of VAT difference increases with the value of the car.

SouthLondonMum22 · 25/11/2025 22:03

GeneralPeter · 25/11/2025 22:01

A person getting a qualifying permanently-adapted car would pay the same VAT (i.e. nil) whether the use Motability or not.

But for a non-adapted car (which most Motability cars are) there is a VAT difference.

And IPT is nil via Motabiltiy whereas fully payable for anyone (whether or not disabled) otherwise.

If the debate is about standard vs luxury cars, then the amount of VAT difference increases with the value of the car.

Most Motability cars aren't BMW's or Mercedes either though.

GeneralPeter · 25/11/2025 22:10

SouthLondonMum22 · 25/11/2025 22:03

Most Motability cars aren't BMW's or Mercedes either though.

No indeed. But 20% of new cars are Motability cars, so it is a sizeable number.

The Guardian says about 7% of those are “premium brands”, which sounds like it might be roughly in line with the general market.

DogsAreNice · 25/11/2025 22:17

cannotmakedecisions · 25/11/2025 21:46

So basically what your saying is that people with mental health problems should just pull themselves together, and, as you said, “ get over it”.
Should people with physical disabilities “get over it” too? If they tried harder then they wouldn’t be in so much pain or maybe their spinal cord would get better?

Depends on the severity of it obviously. Mild/low level, try and handle it. I've had horrible depression and MH. I'm blessed to say I came out on the better side. My DC have had episodes of bad MH, but with my love and support they've managed to overcome it.

Physical disabilities I understand if people are in severe pain and can't work. I know a few twats who believe even they should get over it, take a few pain killers and get to work. I am not this cruel. I would never suggest anyone with MND, cystic fibrosis, cancer etc would be forced to work at all.

Even if you're off work due to anxiety, sure you should attempt to improve your situation and not just live on PIP + UC forever.

I go to work. It's a shitty job, the people are a bit crap and you see how horrible humans can be. But I do it. DH (in finance) often works 80 Hours weeks and has to constantly be online even at the weekend. It's tiring, but we both do it.

MarbleHunt · 25/11/2025 22:26

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 25/11/2025 21:44

People have been pointing out the issues with how CB is means tested since it started.

Obviously that depends on the number of people that it would be applicable to. Most people have children. Most people aren’t so disabled that they are eligible for PIP. Those who are do not always claim, particularly if they do not need to because it’s a degrading and humiliating process (unlike child benefit where claiming consists of filling in a form). People who have children are spread across all income deciles. Disabled people are disproportionately in the lowest two income deciles (predominantly the very lowest, due to the extremely high costs of being disabled in terms of monetary costs to meet additional needs but also the cost of the impact on lifetime earnings and opportunities). Therefore, there are far fewer people in higher deciles to reclaim PIP from via a means-test and it is well documented (even by the DWP in one paper I read) how it is cost prohibitive to means-test it. They would have to implement entirely new IT systems and processes because DWP and HMRC systems aren’t linked up. That would cost many billions of pounds (even if done well, which it wouldn’t be). They would have to employ approximately 8,000 new civil servants at a cost (including pensions and employer taxes) of over £50k per year each so that’s £400m cost in perpetuity. They’d also have to recruit them, train them, hire new offices for them to work in, pay the insurance costs for that and energy bills, buy the IT hardware etc they need, add HR functions and IT support, a complaints team to rectify mistakes, customer service staff and processes etc….

Then what basis would you means test it upon? Individual income? Household income? That could leave many very severely disabled people completely dependent financially and open to abuse. If individual income then even more pointless as it would save even less money. What about asset testing? If you do it will cost even more. If you don’t then it’s arbitrary and pointless anyway.

Either way it would save nothing close to the cost and take years to do. As well as undermining the fundamental purpose of PIP which is the level the playing field a little (by no means fully) between the significantly disabled and others due to the horrific impact and costs severe disability has on lives.

It is nothing like child benefit: child benefit is paid by HMRC, therefore, they already had the data on earnings so a simple update to their own IT system (not that you’d know it from how badly they messed it up, how much they spent on it and how many times even all these years later they still get it wrong). And even in that case, incidentally - a benefit paid to far more people across all income deciles originally and very straightforward to evidence - the economic data does NOT support that it’s saved money overall: the independent economic analysis on low UK productivity commissioned by Jeremy Hunt (alongside numerous other robust economic studies) identified this cliff edge in the tax system as being economically harmful and a significant drag on productivity and growth, alongside the universal credit taper rate being too high, and also of course the withdrawal of the personal allowance and childcare funding at £100k which can result in marginal tax rates of 20,000%! These cliff edges exist in no tax system anywhere else on Earth of which I’m aware, with marginal tax rates fluctuating up and down wildly as income increases for no intelligible reason, creating huge perverse incentives to economic actuvitiy.

Obviously many credible economists have advised this Government and the previous one to make the personal allowance, childcare funding and child benefit universal again because the evidence is that these punitive and nonsensical policies actually LOWER overall tax revenues, lower growth, leads to higher emmigration of skilled workers/ them retiring early/ cutting their working hours and therefore create skills shortages, which then necessitate higher immigration and lowers productivity further and therefore lowers living standards and salaries across the economy and harms the relative value of GBP also, creating higher imported inflation and more debt. That also means higher long-term welfare costs etc as people won’t have saved enough for retirement if they go part time mid-career to avoid the cliff edges. Oh and state childcare also pays for itself many times over. Withdrawing it from your most productive employees is insanity if you want growth.

Even the Guardian published an article about these economic studies, not just the FT and The Times etc. It’s not a left or right view, it is objective evidenced fact that such policies are one of the reasons for the economic doom loop we are in. This has been known for years, and evidenced very robustly in peer reviewed studies on large data sets. Is Reeves proposing to do anything to address this - one thing she could do to give an immediate boost to productivity and growth? Of course not. Probably because she knows people like you would rather be poorer themselves and continue to assert against all available evidence that this self-destructive means-testing is a good idea than allow a system that is fair to all and logical and not self-sabotaging to be implemented, and would be enraged by any attempt to fix the UK tax system if they perceived there to be any benefit if this to anybody who earns more than they do, even if it benefitted them too.

It’s a great example of exactly why this country is in such a mess and unlikely to improve in the short to medium term at least. Nothing will change until the large proportion of the electorate who prefer to engage in mud slinging grow up a bit and start to engage their brains and be willing to discuss evidence-based policy solutions.

MarbleHunt · 25/11/2025 22:34

FellowSuffereroftheAbsurd · 25/11/2025 21:34

Are there going to be the same rules for car hires by MPs or similar people highly paid for by taxpayers who can also get car hires paid for by tax payers?

If this is largely about the optics as many have said, it would be nice optics for some of these sacrifices needed to make the budget work at least potentially impact MPs, even just a little bit.

Indeed. Presumably they’ll be replacing all of their cars with Nissans, irrelevant of the security features that other manufacturers may have available that would meet their needs better, because Nissan are <cough> “British cars” (allegedly).

UserFront242 · 25/11/2025 22:35

DogsAreNice · 25/11/2025 22:17

Depends on the severity of it obviously. Mild/low level, try and handle it. I've had horrible depression and MH. I'm blessed to say I came out on the better side. My DC have had episodes of bad MH, but with my love and support they've managed to overcome it.

Physical disabilities I understand if people are in severe pain and can't work. I know a few twats who believe even they should get over it, take a few pain killers and get to work. I am not this cruel. I would never suggest anyone with MND, cystic fibrosis, cancer etc would be forced to work at all.

Even if you're off work due to anxiety, sure you should attempt to improve your situation and not just live on PIP + UC forever.

I go to work. It's a shitty job, the people are a bit crap and you see how horrible humans can be. But I do it. DH (in finance) often works 80 Hours weeks and has to constantly be online even at the weekend. It's tiring, but we both do it.

Ah, so you are "I managed so why can't you?" types.
Everyone is different. Not everyone has love and support. Some people have no one at all, except their support groups, but I have been told on here that they should not be helped to go to those either.
Funny that you say you would not tell someone to take painkillers and "get over it" to work. How about telling someone to take antidepressants do the same. It sounds like you think that would be ok.

CountryChristmas · 25/11/2025 22:42

Toddlerteaplease · 25/11/2025 17:08

One of my colleagues had a notability car. For the life of me I can’t see how she qualifies.

You won’t be privy to the full impact of her health issues so it’s not surprising that can’t see how she qualifies. It’s none of your business. You’re very easy to identify on here so I’d be careful saying things about your colleagues, you never know who is reading. 😉

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/11/2025 22:48

GeneralPeter · 25/11/2025 21:50

@MarbleHunt I think that's a much better ground to be debating policy on, i.e. what should a decent society fund, what is the return on different types of spending, what are the trends in spending and impact on the total.

We agree we go wrong when policy debates are rooted in misperceptions. This board shows many (most, maybe) people arguing on the grounds that it costs the public nothing extra for a disabled person to buy a car via Motability vs directly, or to buy a more expensive Motabilty car vs a less expensive one.

Regardless of whether that extra is good or bad, it's just false that there is no extra cost.

VAT on Motabiltiy is nil because of a special rule for the scheme. That's different from normal VAT rules where only substantially modified cars benefit. IPT is also nil for Motabiltiy cars, vs full rate for a disabled person buying normally.

These are worth several thousand pounds per car on top of the allowance.

This is why it reminded me of the pension debate. No, NI does not fund the state pension. Similarly, a not-obvious subsidy. You see a parallel with Brexit. I think that using duff figures is unhelpful regardless of what debate, or what side you. Good debate is something like: "we think £1 spent on Motability renders £x in public benefit. Is that multiple still favourable when talking about the marginal subsidy of a luxury car versus a standard one, or are there other areas of public services that would do more with that money?

I suspect the public benefit of subsidising the luxury over the standard car is no longer a good way of spending public funds, versus other options.

(I looked up public spending on disabled people, which grew from 0.2% in 1985 to 1.6% this year, per OBR. So a seven-fold increase. I'm sure there are many reasons, including ageing, but it's not static at all. Where are your figures from?).

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/welfare-spending-disability-benefits

Edited

How about your entirely false claim that the vehicles are owned by the claimants?

Possibly better to get your facts in order before you start lecturing others, really.

Arran2024 · 25/11/2025 22:55

Sunshinesmon · 25/11/2025 17:06

I have to admit, I've been surprised to learn (today) that people with disabilities that don't require any modifications to the vehicle also qualify.

Maybe that's what needs to change? For adapted vehicles they shoukd be able to have what they can afford IMO.

Why do you assume the vehicles need modifications? My daughter has epilepsy and qualifies for a car which i drive for her. What modifications would the car need?

GeneralPeter · 25/11/2025 22:57

NeverDropYourMooncup · 25/11/2025 22:48

How about your entirely false claim that the vehicles are owned by the claimants?

Possibly better to get your facts in order before you start lecturing others, really.

Yes — typo for which I apologise.

You seem cross with me.

Do you agree or disagree that good policy debate is based in facts, consideration of what we want society to be, how public money is best spent, and that if we are debating numbers it’s good for them to be accurate ones?

MarbleHunt · 25/11/2025 23:01

It is interesting that when one has detailed discussions with fixed income portfolio managers at pension funds or insurance firms (i.e. the main buyers of gilts) about their economic concerns re. the UK and latest imminent attempt at economic Kamikaze (if the leaks on Reeves’ idiotic policy suggestions are to be believed) not a single one has ever even mentioned the Motability scheme.

I wonder why…

DogsAreNice · 25/11/2025 23:04

MarbleHunt · 25/11/2025 23:01

It is interesting that when one has detailed discussions with fixed income portfolio managers at pension funds or insurance firms (i.e. the main buyers of gilts) about their economic concerns re. the UK and latest imminent attempt at economic Kamikaze (if the leaks on Reeves’ idiotic policy suggestions are to be believed) not a single one has ever even mentioned the Motability scheme.

I wonder why…

I doubt it's a big deal and a strain on the budget. I have to admit. Disabled people need transportation to get from A to B

DogsAreNice · 25/11/2025 23:12

MarbleHunt · 25/11/2025 23:01

It is interesting that when one has detailed discussions with fixed income portfolio managers at pension funds or insurance firms (i.e. the main buyers of gilts) about their economic concerns re. the UK and latest imminent attempt at economic Kamikaze (if the leaks on Reeves’ idiotic policy suggestions are to be believed) not a single one has ever even mentioned the Motability scheme.

I wonder why…

Do they not talk about the welfare bill at all?