Do you think Brits are really as broke as the media makes out

[SlothfullyYours]

I took some flexi leave this afternoon to run some errands and do some "life admin."

Started off in town. The shoppers' car park was packed, the shops were packed, coffee shops packed. People spending money.

Came home and tried to book car in for a service - garages booked up weeks in advance. Tried to get some trades round to quote for work on the house - all too busy (have been trying for months!).

Friend popped round. Recently started as a self employed cleaner. She says all her slots for house cleaning have been snapped up - and she's charging £20 per hour and we're in the Midlands!

My hairdresser & dentist (private) - have to book weeks/months in advance.

Are we really as skint as the media makes out?

I went into London last month and Oxford street/soho were absolutely rammed. There were queues to get in lots of shops. But we went to a museum and then for lunch, and possibly 2 other shops, we didnt spend loads, its difficult to know - unless queuing to pay - how many people are buying things (and obviously Oxford Street and soho aren't full of essential shops and have a large number of tourists)

But i think its also very area dependent. In the same way where I live, it would be impossible to know - from looking - there was an obesity crisis....but i believe the stats. Yesterday there was someone on the radio talking about 12m people living in poverty. I dont see that within my own experience of work/family/where I live....but i know that's because im lucky, not because the stats are made up

Absolutely. If you don't have £30 for the dentist then you don't it. If it's just a check up anyway, then of course it won't be a high priority even if you know that next time you might have to pay more for a filling. When you are broke, it's a case of managing priorities and financial emergencies.

In my work I sometimes deal with county court judgements and debt orders. I've seen CCJs or restrictions put on a person's house implemented for as "little" as £150. It's easy to say that £150 isn't worth the long term issues so just pay it. But if you dont have £150, it may as well be £5m.

Before Covid the town I live in had 11 women’s hairdressers two of them were really huge hair salons. Five of those salons have shut down including one of the huge ones, So now to get an appointment is quite hard as those left have taken on all the other customers. Just like a local garage shut. That’s why some places feel busy as so much has shut down.

I fortunately have a mate who is a builder. They really don’t want to take on some jobs. The job itself may be difficult to put a time allocation on plus the person wanting the quote may be someone who looks like they will be a PITA to deal with. This coupled with lack of training young people in trades it’s not a suprise.

See how much is left over afterwards...

Although the sales of very cheap crap aren't really an indication of much. People with very little to spare will still want a bit of cheap cheer. It's the lipstick index... in difficult times, people often buy more small but inexpensive luxuries to get a small hit to escape the gloom.

Oh yes, the endless cycle of 'stuff'. This year Halloween crap really seemed to explode with elaborate house decorations and boo boxes (which I had to look up when I first heard about it, basically a Christmas Eve box for Halloween).

And then, as soon as Halloween was over, we had the best part of a fortnight of people literally setting fire to tens, if not hundreds of pounds worth of fireworks before swiftly moving on to Christmas, with houses decorated, piles of gifts and other tat in the shops and retail parks so rammed you needn't bother trying to get parked if you don't get there before 10 am at the weekend if you don't want to end up stuck in a queue of cars to get in, most of which cost more than a year's worth of my quite decent salary.

A healthy economy needs people to spend on the non essentials though. Sure, some people make unwise financial decisions with their spending but we would be in dire straits if everyone stopped buying everything bar food, fuel and bare essentials clothing.

The housing market isn’t stagnant where I live. Three houses on this road have sold in the last three months - they were £795k, £895k and £1.1 million. All three were sold subject to contract in days. The new owners have just moved into the first one.

The shops were rammed on Sunday and people don’t appear to be holding back much.

This is one of the more ignorant posts I've seen on MN and that's saying something! If you go to the shops etc, you won't see the people who can't afford to shop because they are NOT THERE. Also I imagine shops are busier right now because Christmas is coming up.

You mention shops (M&S Foodhall 😂), garage, dentist, flights. It's lovely that YOU can afford all 4 of those things, but I imagine many people are picking and choosing, so although there are people in all of those places, probably not the same people.

Like people have pointed out, the dentist saves you money in the long run so my husband and I go for checkups, we save up for this. Our (15 year old) car is currently in the garage, we are paying for this with the money we would've used for a long weekend away in the UK, the only holiday we were going to have.

It's lovely that you're well off enough to do all these things and I'm sure the other people shopping in bloody M&S Foodhall are pretty well off as well, but not everyone you see is in the same position as you

I haven’t been “shopping” as in non food since last Christmas but I’ve been twice in the last week because it’s Christmas in 4 weeks. My car should have been serviced in April but I’ve also had that done last week as I delayed it due to skintness (so it’s been in twice this year instead of once) and I’m not happy trying to push it over the winter. My ex - neighbour had the garage it goes to but he shut down during covid and he started as a mobile mechanic but now he’s moved to Poland as he thinks it will be better for his kids futures (they are secondary school age). The garage is run by someone else now but it’s just 2 men when it used to be about 6. More business are closing than opening (statistically) and I don’t think it’s because everyone is so rich they decide to close down. My dentist is about £28/year but dh is private as he can’t get in a nhs list. He pays monthly and goes 2x a year. His teeth are a state from years of no dentist so it is something he prioritises. Neither of us can see very well as we are in the age of varifocals and have budgeted 1 pair each every 2 years when we are both changing prescription more rapidly than that. I used to think nothing of getting 2 pairs of single vision glasses a year. Queues are longer as there are fewer staff to deal with customers despite automation. The basic fact is inflation, particularly food inflation, has outstripped wages and rents and mortgages have also disproportionately increased so lots and lots of people are poorer than they were a few years ago. But dual income older people or young earners with no kids who live with parents can afford a coffee, a dentist and to service their car. People with high housing costs and childcare costs are often skint unless very high earners. People do treat themselves in small ways (a coffee) who would previously have treated themselves in bigger ways (a lunch, a purchase, a holiday) it’s like Orwell’s chip shop theory.

We don’t live in the UK but visit a major UK city fairly regularly and I can never believe how crowded the city centre shops are, 7 days a week, and including the arcades of designer brands (The city is not especially a tourist hotspot so assume primarily people from the local and surrounding areas). Tricky to get into any restaurant or even a bar without pre-booking either. Meanwhile where I live our high street footfall has noticeably dwindled in recent years, evidenced by a lot of empty units. And we’re in a tax haven, so in theory should be more resistant to cost of living.

Yes - this resonates with me - when I was skint I didn't take the bus, I walked for 2 miles, even in the rain - no way would I have had a coffee at Costa (still won't do stuff like that). And I didn't see a dentist the whole time I was a student (I regret that!) And running a car - that's funny...no way could I even think of running a car. No choices.

I'm not broke, well I am by the end of the month but we are definitely not well off.

I haven't been to the dentist/hairdresser/car service ect for years. My teeth are cracked and some fell out after my last pregnancy but its at the bottom of my priority list right now. My kids do some extra afterschool activities which we could cut back on but its good for them to be out of the house and doing activities. The last holiday we had was a caravan holiday in '22 I haven't been able to afford it since.

I've just increased my hours at work now my youngest has started school from 28.5 to 34 in the hope that we can start to make some savings/pay off debt.

Sadly I made some very poor decisions in my 20's and 30's and have ended up in a ton of debt and renting with 3 children. I'm now in my 40's and I doubt I will ever have enough money to buy property until my boomer parents die and that's only if they still have their house and haven't had to use it to pay for care!

The debate has centred on heating versus eating and less so on the people who are just less comfortable, it’s a huge issue for business. All those small cutbacks such as less trips to the hair salon like @Pinkyporky has pointed out added up with millions making small decisions like this it’s a lot less money going in to local economies.

I still go out to lunch once a week it used to be sometimes three times, no one is going to feel sorry for me are they. But it’s my decision to spend less in what feels like very uncertain times.

There still seems to be plenty of money sloshing around. Theatre shows with £50 - £100 tickets sold out for weeks. Gigs that sell out in seconds. I’ve been unable to get a hair appointment as all places near me have been booked up for the whole of December since early September. Obviously some people are struggling but I see lots of cash splashing still going on. Including myself tbf but I haven’t been pleading poverty

I agree op - I had a similar thought while shopping in various locations the other day. Where is the cost of living crises when everyone is out spending money in their droves this Xmas?

70 million people are a lot to be making generalisations about "as a whole" though 🙄

The people who are broke won't be out and about doing all those things.

Some of the people who are doing them can't actually afford them and are putting it all on credit

Others do have surplus money to spend and want to spend it, rather than paying it in tax.

Also you don't really see or notice the things people aren't spending money on because they dont tend to tell others about that -businesses and pubs closing down, people re wearing outfits when they might have bought new, not moving house or going on holiday, etc.

Often people spend money on small things when they can't afford the big things - the red lipstick effect. The government getting 20% in VAT from a few pub meals isn't going to touch the sides of the £10,000 they would have claimed in stamp duty off the sale of one property.

It's hidden if you live somewhere nice. Near us everyone flocks to a couple of lovely small towns (30 mins from us) which are always heaving - shops and cafes are bustling.

People prefer to skip the poorer towns and drive somewhere nicer. But the slightly poorer/less pretty towns are full of boarded up shops and charity shops.

Almost the whole of the UK is an unfortunate minority though on a global scale.

The top 10% of earners in the UK have an income over £65k a year. The top 10% in the USA have an income over £145k.

UK gets poorer and poorer. The UKs welfare bill is enormous, taxes are higher, property prices are higher, the UK has higher levels of unskilled immigration, higher levels of immigration overall, energy prices have killed industry (4x higher than US energy bills).

Sit in a Costa for a hour. You'll hear loads of people complaining about the cost of living and how their benefits aren't enough - whilst drinking a £6 mocha-latte-sprinkle coffee. Says it all really.

People can afford coffees but not houses!

I’m not sure that everyone is skint but a lot of people are poorer than they were a few years ago. To use my own family as an example, we are paying about £1k a month more on our mortgage due to the rate hike a couple of years ago, just as our old fixed rate came to an end. And an extra £5k in tax due to VAT on private school fees. We made the decision to take on the mortgage we have and put our daughter in private school years ago, when we felt pretty comfortable. Those two changes alone take around £17k out of our family’s disposable income each year. Add to that increased fuel costs (we are on oil so no price cap applies) and food price hikes, we are paying a lot more to stay in the same lifestyle. Everything is relative - people feel poorer than they did a few years ago and no one likes to feel that their life is moving backwards.

If they're still taking a holiday each year, then that means they're still well-off. If they're taking more than one holiday a year, then they're definitely well-off...

@SlothfullyYours A large chunk of the poverty is self-inflicted. 20 years ago, people were driving fairly normal cars. Nowadays, everyone feels like they need to drive a stupid-looking SUV, or one of the obnoxious German trio cars (Mercedes/BMW/Audi).

People pay £200 a month for these cars, sometimes a lot more, for the privilege of not even legally owning them.

If people went back to driving normal cars, a lot of the self-inflicted poverty would suddenly evaporate.

The other aspect is housing. House prices have grown much faster than inflation, and are currently the biggest ponzi scheme in the country. Treating property as an investable asset was always going to have negative outcomes, but the wealthy don't care about that.

That’ll be me. I don’t go out much anymore unless it’s work or local food shop. Not because I don't want to, but I now have to weigh up what the potential costs might be. I don’t even go for a wander round my nearest city like I used to because it will incur extra costs. I haven’t been micromanaging my money like this for a long time but every single thing costs more and is less (size, quality, service etc) than ever. It makes me wonder what people will actually get for their money in a few decades when everything has been trimmed to the bone so much it’s disappeared altogether.

I have a friend who is doing so much better financially than she was ten year’s ago. She was at my hours in tears once because she and her dh were struggling so much. They’ve turned things around and now have money to burn. I don’t think the col is affecting them very much at all.

Excellent post.