Do you think Brits are really as broke as the media makes out

[SlothfullyYours]

I took some flexi leave this afternoon to run some errands and do some "life admin."

Started off in town. The shoppers' car park was packed, the shops were packed, coffee shops packed. People spending money.

Came home and tried to book car in for a service - garages booked up weeks in advance. Tried to get some trades round to quote for work on the house - all too busy (have been trying for months!).

Friend popped round. Recently started as a self employed cleaner. She says all her slots for house cleaning have been snapped up - and she's charging £20 per hour and we're in the Midlands!

My hairdresser & dentist (private) - have to book weeks/months in advance.

Are we really as skint as the media makes out?

@SlothfullyYours Oh, and the UK's current debt-to-GDP ratio is almost 96% - that's a level not seen since the early 1960s. The country's not completely broke, but we're damn close!

I run a business selling items for a hobby which can be very expensive. The last 2 years have been hard on profits but this year people are spending a hell of a lot more. No idea why!

This has already been covered. It genuinely doesn't matter how much of this frippery you dispense with, unless you have a stonking great sum to put down in deposit, in a lot of parts of the UK you will not get a mortgage regardless unless you are also earning a salary significantly above the norm. It's simply beyond people earning average salaries in places where property speculation has led to runaway house price increases. Why subject yourself to a joyless life of penury when it makes absolutely no difference to your prospects of ever owning your own home in any case?

But in many many parts of the UK it is possible for people on average wages to save for a deposit on a suitable home in a suitable area in a reasonable timescale.

No-ones saying do without everything non essential, just not go for the expensive version every time.

The same could be said when choosing a home. It seems that a lot of FTBs now expect to be able to buy, say, a 3 or 4 bed semi or detached in a desirable area whereas it used to be that we looked at flats or small terraces often without gardens or only a small yard (this is what my first purchase was) in a cheaper area, which is still safe and has access to amenities but I suddenly deemed unsuitable (and yes there are jobs available, there's cities with plenty of large employers including law, finance, tech, public sector etc etc outside the SE).

I've just replaced my phone, because I dropped the old one and the screen broke. It still works but there's large parts of the screen obscured and when I need someone scan a barcode it's a struggle.

I had my old phone nearly 4 years and it cost £150, bought at a discount. I sold the one it replaced, probably for around £50. I pay £7 a month for a sim only service. So I probably average around £10 a month to have a phone.

My new phone cost £165. It's perfectly decent and functional and I can't see why I'd need to pay £40/50/60 a month for a 'better' phone on contract even though I could easily afford to.

That's hundreds of pounds extra a year just for a phone. Likewise cars, far cheaper to start with a nearly new average version, run for a few years compared with leasing a new higher end model, changed every 3 years.

Both get you from A to B in safety and comfort yet the latter will cost hundreds of pounds a month more, which is thousands of pounds a year or tens of thousands a decade.

Repeat for hair, nails, tattoos, botox, eyebrows, gym memberships, lunches, takeaways, eating out etc etc. No need to cut out completely, just cut down for a bit.

Like a recent poster said, if I lived like the 1990s, I'd have loads of money, likewise if people prioritised differently, they'd have loads of money and for many, if absolutely is the difference between saving a house deposit in say 2-3 years and not.

The high cost situation in London/SE is not representative of the country as a whole and its a perfectly achievable goal in large parts of the country. But not at the same time as spending loads of money on non essentials.

You clearly think that's just fine and dandy

I've clearly said it isn't ok, oh keyboard warrior of Mumsnet.

My new phone cost £165. It's perfectly decent and functional and I can't see why I'd need to pay £40/50/60 a month for a 'better' phone on contract even though I could easily afford to.
That's hundreds of pounds extra a year just for a phone. Likewise cars, far cheaper to start with a nearly new average version, run for a few years compared with leasing a new higher end model, changed every 3 years.

I said earlier that being poor costs more, and this is a really good example of why. You have to have the money to pay upfront in order to get a cheaper but still good refurbished phone or second hand car, whereas the lease terms allow you to pay a smaller amount which is more accessible- even though you pay over the odds longer term. A bit like having a mortgage vs renting.

It’s Terry Pratchett’s ‘Vimes’ Boots Theory of Economic Injustice’ and it’s worth looking that up and reading it because it lays it out so very well.

I know all about Vimes boot theory and phones are a really poor illustration because it's never going to be necessary to sign up for a £40 a month contract because you can't afford to shell out £165.

If you're that strapped you're unlikely to pass the credit check for a start and you can get old but working phones from ebay etc for the same price as a months phone contract. Or ask around as there will almost certainly be someone you know with a spare phone to lend or sell you.

Same with cars, again it's a loan/finance either way, so equally accessible, just a not quite so flashy car.

But people can keep telling themselves that they 'can't afford' to save up because their iPhone and leased Audi is taking all their money.

I think some of it is because people are cutting back in bigger spend areas. If you can't afford to buy a house or move to a bigger house and you know you'll never afford the £65k extension what's the point in saving for it? I think people are prioritising spending on hobbies and trying to enjoy life over saving for things that aren't achievable anyway.

I think this is partly why people buy all the B&M seasonal decor stuff too. If you can't afford to spend a lot to renovate your house or you're renting a house you can't do anything with you can make it pretty with a few cheap things from B&M. That and social media making everyone want these things!

Goods and services aren’t plentiful in communist eastern bloc either. Doesn’t meant those countries are affluent. It just means there isn’t enough to go around for the people living there.

This country is definitely poorer than it used to be, and getting poorer every day.

Firstly, close to 1 in 5 living in absolute poverty is high. It is shocking, and if you are not shocked, it's your perspective that is skewed.

Secondly, beyond that 18% is another big group struggling to meet basic living costs but not in absolute poverty. For these people it is hard going every month.

When someone denies the lived reality of their fellow countrypeople, they are either motivated by emotional reasons (find sad things difficult to deal with, have an emotional need to put a good spin on things) or political reasons (oppose tax changes, oppose benefits etc.). Or of course they may just not understand the issue.

The lived reality in this country is the lived reality.

OK Marie-Antoinette, just ignore the inconvenient truth if you can't cope with it.

You're focusing on the coffee. I used it as one tiny example of unnecessary spending. When the attitude is 'it's only a few quid and I deserve it' there seems to be no end to the extravagance. I see people flashing their card all the time - a coffee, a sandwich, a new bag, a cake, a jokey card, a new lipstick etc. etc. They're all little spends, they're all unnecessary, they all add up.

They do add up, but they don’t add up to a deposit to buy a house these days.

'Flashing your card' does add up, but this is not why so many people in this country have an income that is too low to ever cover basic living costs.

This is a separate issue for a separate group of people.

Income poverty is real.

I was listening to radio yesterday and the uk throws out more electrical goods (and presumably replaces them) than any other country.
i suspect it’s the same with clothes

This

I dont know why people bandy around the 'average' figures for a deposit to purchase a house when many people that will struggle wont be buying an averagely priced house or have an average deposit

The figure in a previous post about a 6k deposit, yes that will do nicely for a 5% deposit on a property of 120k, so all this talk of 'it wont pay for a deposit', it absolutely would. And as others have said the 'coffee' talk is symbolic for small things which add up.

Just changing your supermarket to Lidl or Aldi could save hundreds a year, I know this because I do a comparison shop online each time OH moans about us not shopping in Sainsburys or Ocado, last basket I measured, I put the same 17 items or equivalent into the online basket at Ocado and it was £10 difference just with 17 items, they were just bog standard boring standard shop stuff. And actually that was a comparison with Asda and Ocado. If I did that every week thats £520 a year. Thats on top of everything else that you can cut back on

There have been countless threads showing property all over the country which is affordable. But then you'll get people saying the areas are dumps or shitholes. Well actually people live work and play in those areas and bring their children up.

If you insist that the only property you can buy is 500k (or more) in leafy London suburbs then you're blinding yourself to what you could purchase elsewhere. People move all over the world to give their family opportunities and accommodation but its dismissed in this country that someone moves or considers a cheaper area to live. There are pros and cons of course and its about what you prioritise.

A smart phone is a smart phone. Mine was about £80 but I could have got one for around £50 (I paid extra for the colour, I'll keep it at least 3 years). My contract is £5 per month and I never come close to finishing my allowance. It would be much cheaper for someone to borrow the £80 than to go into a contract for one that is £50+ monthly. You need money upfront anyway to be approved for the latter phone.

@soupyspoon £120k doesn’t get you much these days, in terms of a terrace house in an OK area with good travel links. As a first time buyer I have spent months researching properties in that ball park figure, within the north of England. And not everyone will have access to 5% deposits, also there’s fees to consider.

But you're arguing for arguments sake now

It doesnt have to be house, some people might be buying their first flat having given up their horrific coffee habit

You would obviously look for a mortgage that does 5% wouldnt you

Yes there are fees there are fees for everything thats a given

The point is, someone made out that just cutting this or that back doesnt meet the need for saving for a deposit, except it does, in some places and for some properties. Its not a blanket 'this wont work at all'.

In fact just because I love a nose on rightmove Ive picked 2 places this morning Hastings and Kettering, for no reason other than one is south and one is midlands

In both places you can get 1 bed flats for around that price, slightly over for Hastings and surrounds (Bexhill, St Leonards etc) and in Kettering and surrounds you can get 1/2 bed flats/maisonettes

I dont look at auction, shared ownership or retirement properties.

But you're arguing for arguments sake now

No, I'm giving you the views of someone looking to buy a house and who has spent months researching the market. Flats almost always come with leasehold issues, obviously have smaller space than houses, and are much harder to sell than houses. That's partly why there's thousands of flats up for sale up and down the country, often reduced, and have been up for sale for a while. But yeah, sure if you want to buy a little house in a shit hole area in the north you can buy one for £70k and it wouldn't take you too long to get that deposit, or a flat (but then if you wanted to move up like most people do you'd have to pay stamp duty on the house, that's if you could even flog that flat). Shared ownership is a con and for the desperate, in my view.

So they're not desperate.

But they do. You see it all the time on here- people who are finally forced to take stock of their spending and realise they are spending £250+ on coffees, Greggs, treats etc. £250/month over a few years adds up, especially if you can supplement it with other budgeting.

On the MSE forums and UK personal finance subreddits, there a loads of average people on average salaries putting away reasonable deposits. Yes - some might have advantages such as being able to live at home, but a lot of them don't.

I tend to use the water bottle index - how many primary school kids had those horrible airUp bottles that cost the best part of £40? And this year it's all Owala. If you're happy to throw £40 at a kid's water bottle and do it every year/18 months, then you either have plenty of money or you don't have a grip on your finances, if you're simultaneously complaining about being skint.

@DeafLeppard i was talking about saving enough to buy a house, not cutting back to save money on general.

How do you think you save enough to buy a house? Most people can't spend £250 on junk and also save for a house deposit. It's slightly under £400/month savings to reach £30K in 5 years if you max out your LISA. Not spending £200+ on coffees and Pret absolutely does make a difference.