Do you think Brits are really as broke as the media makes out

[SlothfullyYours]

I took some flexi leave this afternoon to run some errands and do some "life admin."

Started off in town. The shoppers' car park was packed, the shops were packed, coffee shops packed. People spending money.

Came home and tried to book car in for a service - garages booked up weeks in advance. Tried to get some trades round to quote for work on the house - all too busy (have been trying for months!).

Friend popped round. Recently started as a self employed cleaner. She says all her slots for house cleaning have been snapped up - and she's charging £20 per hour and we're in the Midlands!

My hairdresser & dentist (private) - have to book weeks/months in advance.

Are we really as skint as the media makes out?

Usually by being gifted money or using that money with money they’ve saved or combining all that with money their partner has been saved or/and gifted.

One person on one income does not save for a house deposit these days by cutting out coffees and Pret lunches for a few years.

You're focusing on the coffee

I have acknowledged twice the coffee is metaphorical, and I have also twice rebutted the nonsense claims that the reason young people can not afford to buy property is because of their excessive spending on non-essentials.

Either that or people are going into debt!!!!!

Our local m and s food shop is always quiet, the awful westfield mall has mostly teenagers with a primark bag or eating mc donalds etc...i work one day a week helping a friend sell old jewellery and watches....nobody is buying ..all are selling their unwanted gold due to high prices...he can spend 20k a day buying in old scrap gold but lucky to sell one ring !

But you do realise that people live in flats? They choose to buy flats? People are not just exclusively looking for houses only?

I did a very quick search of 2 random far away places before work, because Im nosy and I like to see things. Im actually a Rightmove hobbyist (I have invented that title) I look at random places on Rightmove with different budgets and different specifications all the time, because Im nosy and like looking at stuff

I see lots of properties up and down the country for the 120kish mark when Ive looked. I think its acrtually offensive to describe places as shit holes its nearly always about the north. People live in those shit hole areas you describe and live good lives.

Yes, and you can really see the difference when you go abroad and see how behind we are

"Our anger should be at businesses who pay such low wages because they know the tax payer will top up their employees to a barely liveable wage."
Absolutely this - well said. 40% of people claiming UC are also working and the state is subsidising employers' wage bills.

It isn't really the companies and large businesses who are the most to blame here. Yes, they are the ones paying pittance salaries, but any profit-making organisation is going to do whatever they can to minimise outgoings and maximise profits

The real issue is that we have Governments that not only refuse point blank to tax business in anything like a reasonable manner, but they compound this by actively encouraging the same companies to exploit UK labour by permitting them to pay a pittance on the basis that the Government will make good the shortfall.

It's lunacy.

The very large employers are siphoning billions out of the UK economy in profits, money made off the back of UK workers, while the UK government says "this is fine" and scrabbles around to make up the shortfall.

It’s not your large companies paying poor wages - your crap minimum wage employer is more likely to be the local pub, or Dave’s slightly dodgy garage.

Or the government. Lots of NHS and Civil Service staff I lower grades will need a pay rise next April to bring their salary up to NMW as has been the case for the last few years. These jobs used to pay 20-30% over NMW but that has been eroded to nothing.

Have you seen what carers earn? For such an important role, to be paid minimum wage really is so wrong. They're often fairly large employers, not back yard businesses..

Yes, it's an absolute tragedy that carers are paid NMW. It's a key essential service and should be valued so much higher, both in terms of salary and status.

The Guardian had an interesting article about people in rental properties increasingly having to live without a living room due to the cost of renting. I do think there are two different Britain's (to oversimplify massively). Many people still living the high life while others see the basics disappear completely.

Some stats from the article:

Between January and June this year, 29.8% of rooms listed in the UK were in properties without a living room, rising to 41.2% in London. Almost half (49%) of all renters surveyed reported that the living room in their home is now being used as a bedroom.

and - Opinions are divided. According to SpareRoom’s research, 44% believe not having a living room may have affected their mental health. Even so, as the cost of living crisis continues, more than a third (36%) of those living in a shared property said they would willingly forgo a living room in return for cheaper rent.

What you need to account for here is the huge increase in student numbers - have student flatshares & student accommodation been taken out of this analysis? Because frankly I do not care if a university undergrad doesn't have a living room.

I'm not sure no living room has ever been that unusual. When I lived in student housing, in one house the "living room" was a sofa in the kitchen, in another it was literally a hallway. Basically the only rooms the LL couldnt make into a bedroom.

Then there have always been studio flats.

HMOs often dont have living rooms.

And yeah, Id be willing to forgo a living room if I was living in a HMO with people I didnt know and got cheaper rent.

I would like to see a breakdown of children living in poverty. Those who live in central London, those who parent has drug or drink issues, those whose parents have mental health issues making them unable to cope, those whose parents do see their fathers and the fathers contribute, those etc etc
And maybe the numbers of siblings.

With the amount of benefits paid in the uk (surely more than other countries or why are immigrants coming here as it’s not for the jobs) why is this poverty happening. There could be better things the money could go on than benefit payments such as mental health support or sure start.

I doubt students make up 41% of rentals in London or anywhere near that number but yes, it would be interesting to know the figure.

I think it's fair enough when you're younger but there are people who are being forced to live their whole lives in these situations. You can never really have people round which is going to mean you miss out on being able to develop some relationships.

Obviously if it saves you money when you're short it's preferable for many but there were times and places where you wouldn't have to forgo any significant amount of money to have a communal space. It is an interesting article.

From what I understand our total welfare spending is about average for developed countries. "Illegal" immigrants come here because it's harder for us to make them leave due to Brexit. Small boat crossings were a tiny problem when we were still in the EU. Although we still have fewer coming here than many other European countries.

Apparently the Dublin Agreement had little effect.

Someone upthread said that first-time buyers all wanted 2-3 bed semis rather than studio flats. I think one big issue nowadays is that people are living in shared houses and rentals for far longer than they ever did years ago, because of the cost of accommodation. So the first-time buyers may need 3 bedrooms because they’re 39 and have 2 kids, rather than 29 with no children. The lack of a living room is impactful on mental health because you’re sharing a house with other people as a couple or a family, or it’s been for years and you don’t want to spend every evening in your bedroom on your own when you’re 34 or 44.

Yes, it makes sense that FTBs would be more likely to go for houses now. As you say, they're older. The concept of the ladder isn't really there as it used to be. Flats are a much dodgier investment thanks to the leasehold scandal, and private outside space is at a greater premium now we've experienced being unable to use communal outside spaces recreationally.

Or even if they're 29, they know they are planning to have kids soon, and housing and associated costs are so expensive now it's cheaper to just buy a place big enough straight away rather than move again in another two years. By the time you've taken into account stamp duty, sols fees, moving costs, estate agent fees, progressing up the ladder isn't cheap.

Plus more people are wfh so a separate office is justifiable, if not an absolute necessity.

It varies in different parts of the country as well, but where I live there's hardly any difference between a 2 bed flat and a 2 bed terraced house, and by the time you've factored in the service charges on the flat it's often more expensive (and much, much harder to sell on). I'm in my mid 30s and out of all the family, friends and colleagues I know around my age who have bought houses (probably at least 50 or so), I can only think of 2 who bought flats as their first property.