Do you think Brits are really as broke as the media makes out

[SlothfullyYours]

I took some flexi leave this afternoon to run some errands and do some "life admin."

Started off in town. The shoppers' car park was packed, the shops were packed, coffee shops packed. People spending money.

Came home and tried to book car in for a service - garages booked up weeks in advance. Tried to get some trades round to quote for work on the house - all too busy (have been trying for months!).

Friend popped round. Recently started as a self employed cleaner. She says all her slots for house cleaning have been snapped up - and she's charging £20 per hour and we're in the Midlands!

My hairdresser & dentist (private) - have to book weeks/months in advance.

Are we really as skint as the media makes out?

I grew up and didn't know the hygienist was a thing at all! Lifelong nhs dentist it was never recommended or mentioned. Only talking to someone else from a very different financial position did I learn you're suppose to go.
It's the first time I've been to one this year. Thankfully my teeth are good and they said I could go just go every 12 months rather than 6. If I'm honest I don't view it as a necessity but a nice to have as it's just not in budget. That's how I view coffee, eating out,nails etc it's a completely different mindset. So not only will there be a vast majority it's out of reach for. There is a vast majority that it won't be even on their radar because its so far out of their sphere of what a normal lifestyle looks like.

Years ago when I was a penniless student I'd be in town on a Saturday and see people, even girls my age walking about with topshop bags and people loaded down with shopping and I used to wonder, where do they get the money to come out and buy all this stuff every week! In my brain I was imagining that all these same people were out week on week shopping. In reality it was probably girls with birthday money, people on pay day or doing a big shop for things they only do once or twice a year.

If you saw me out with my husband last week, we went book shopping, to a café for tea and cake, to the cinema and for a meal and spent just over £100 on a day out. What you don't see is that we don't do that very often at all, maybe once a year at our birthday's (which are in the same week). We hardly ever get takeaway or buy stuff for ourselves but from the outside to a casual observer they might think we're out living the high life (if you can call it that) every week.

This time of year people are out shopping for Christmas gifts they may or may not have the money for, perhaps getting their hair cut for a Christmas do, maybe they were doing life admin stuff too? People work irregular shifts or still have leave to use up by the end of the year so perhaps mid week is the only / best time for them to get stuff done.

Also how many people are spending every penny they earn or going into debt to maintain their lifestyle? My DH is close to his cousin who earns 100k but they have zero savings because he and his wife spend every penny on holidays, trips out, shopping and so on which is there choice of course. The average UK household debt according to a quick google is about 17k and that is excluding mortgages. The median financial assets in the UK for households is approximately 10k with around 20% of households having less than £100 in savings.

I know things are increasingly expensive and I cut back because of that because we do prefer to live below our means.

The haves and the have nots.
Is that really the case?

Very complicated, but l do wonder where people covered from head to toe in recent tattoos and three expensive breed, not rescue dogs in tow. And have a large car. Not cheap.

Who cannot, will not or don't work get their money from. They are not disabled by the way.

Please don't tell.me l am stereotyping because l live near many of these people and have done for years

Beats me.

Lots of people are very broke and won't be buying food in M+S food hall or expensive coffees out. There will always be plenty of other people who have lots of money though.

I am putting off a much-needed dentist trip and sleeping with my daughter in my room so I don’t need to heat hers throughout winter. But we went ice skating on Saturday.

you might see me in m&s food hall - I want to treat myself as I never go out for dinner anymore.

Yesterday I read a headline saying that pensions are set to go up by 4.8% in the Budget. It was written as if it was something that the Chancellor had decided to do out of the goodness of her heart. But it turns out that it's the earnings component of the triple lock; apparently UK earnings/wages (I'm not sure exactly what the definition is) are up 4.8% year-on-year, or were at whatever point it was calculated. So some people are doing OK.

I think people are squeezed- So this is what we have done- mortgage paid, kids still in private school, holidays (not luxury ones) but we have got rid of our cleaner, dog walker, takeaways, meals out, cut present spending , going out , clothes all severely reduced. Kids hobbies reduced significantly, we’re not moving house but need to but will make do with small house. Got rid of all subscriptions, sky gone etc no David Lloyd gym membership. Dentist - we use nhs and used to pay privately. And opticians unless we absolutely need to we don’t use now (used to be an annual no brainer )

We have stripped it right back to afford our must haves and all the stuff on the side has absolutely gone .

Not related to the thread as such but lots of people mentioning glasses...

In England (and I guess Wales) if you use a computer screen at work regularly, your employer must pay for a yearly eye test for you. In some cases if your job involves a lot of mandatory driving, your employer must pay for eye tests for you.

If you need glasses purely for computer use, then your employer must contribute to those (I think it covers a very basic lens and frame). If the optician says it's for computer use only you might have to be quite insistent that they tick the appropriate box to allow you to claim as they are reluctant. I dont think your employer covers driving glasses though.

This is H&S law.

If you work for an agency, it is the agency's obligation to pay for this.

But I'm still not convinced most folk are broke!

Most people are not broke i.e. in debt, rent arrears, empty larder, etc but many are living on low wages and just about making ends meet - these are the people Rachel Reeves should be prioritising tomorrow.

My mate said the same when she noticed the luxury christmas seafood platter at M&S was already sold out. I guess people do have money, but less of it. Probably not going to translate to the streets being empty whenever OP runs errands.

Very area dependent. I’m in a reasonably affluent area and lots out and about, shops busy, cafes etc. I always notice a sharp contrast in deprived town 20 mins drive away.

It's a good question OP and certainly when I am out and about there seems to be people everywhere (during working hours) and it does give the impression that no-one is working anymore. I see lots of youngsters but don't know if they are all benefit scroungers and refusing to work or desperate for a job but unable to find one.

I see lots of people aged 50 and up who don't seem to work (that includes me) but again you can't tell. Some might work shifts, some have probably retired early (me) and some might have caring responsibilities.

Certainly where I live no-one seems skint. New cars, house improvements going on, holidays etc. I think some have had help from parents and some have made a fortune selling their second homes during the covid house price boom.

For me personally I retired early but have to live frugually to do so. That does not bother me as I had plenty of expensive holidays, clothes etc and now my priorities are different. I don't get my pension yet (too young) so live on savings/inheritance. If you looked at my food shop you might think I spend a fortune as it's full of fillet steak, salmon, lamb, seabass and fresh fruit and veg etc. However I prioritise good food for me and the dog but spend very little in other areas. No holidays for over 10 years, old car, spend next to nothing on clothes, no meals out or takeaways.

So my neighbours looking at me might wonder why I don't work and how I can afford that being younger than 55. They might see my waitrose food shops and think I am minted. Perhaps they think I am one of the benefit scroungers (no benefits but they don't know that).

The goverment and the way benefits are being doled out though is pissing me off beyond belief. I have considered getting a part-time job for a bit of extra dosh and for some company etc. However the idea of paying tax to fund benefits turns my stomach now and so I pretty much refuse to do it. I was in the high tax brackets from my twenties and I never used to think like this. However that was when most people worked and benefits did seem to be for the most part for genuine people.

Now my attitude is hell will freeze over before I go back to work to pay tax/NI to support all these PIP payments for anxiety. I don't think I am the only one that thinks this either. So many people are feeling pissed off with the whole welfare /PIP thing that they are working part-time or less hours to claim benefits or miss tax cliff edges.

I do wonder what will happen as the rich keep leaving and the income from tax gets smaller. I felt utterly outraged at hearing benefits are going up in the budget and it only reinforced the idea that hell will freeze over before I go back to work and contribute to our scrounger welfare state. I can manage, I don't claim anything so if the goverment wants to bankrupt the country then they won't be doing it off my labour/earnings.

I would feel differently if they were cutting benefits and raising taxes and trying to build growth into the economy.

Anyway just another take from a person who you see out and about and who shops for expensive food and my reasons. No takeaway coffee although I do have an expensive milk frother and make my own at home each day.

p.s. Oh yes and I had to pay to see a GP recently cos I can't get one on the NHS it seems. Fine, I will pay but no I am not paying for all the freebies that are getting dished out.

If you step back and look at what poverty, recession, and a nations wealth means, we have a really weird way of viewing it.

this country is getting poorer. A bit extreme, but think of the Victorians who oversaw a period of significant industrial, social, and imperial change- railways, sewerage systems, beautiful art and culture we still appreciate today (as well as raping the colonies of resource, and subjecting the masses to huge inequality of course)
Compare to today, throwing up cheap mass produced buildings (or not- 1 in 6 London sites now sits closed because investors have stopped work) no freedom of movement, everyone obsessed with foreign invaders- it’s truly a race to the bottom.
We talk about people affording a dentist as if it proves we are all still rich, when that has basically no impact on the wealth of a nation. We demand that poor people are truly poor, devoid of basic technology or stimulants otherwise we demand they’re not really poor enough.

Poor looks like lack of British asset ownership, poor looks like little British invention or entrepreneurship, poor looks like lack of generational wealth, poor looks like people spending the last of their wealth on a care home. Poor looks like little luxury car or property market because so few can afford to buy it.
These people are not THE POOR but these are signs of a nation that is overall, poor.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm we're definitely struggling at the moment. I'm putting at least one food shop a month on the credit card and missing a few meals a week. I don't go to the hairdresser's anymore or get my eyebrows done, buy moisturizer etc... but I do go out once week with my baby to Dunelm meal. I spend £4 on a coffee and she eats for free. We also look around the shops while we're out. But our life has changed dramatically this year and we've ended up with quite a lot of debt.

Take the area covered by buildings and it's nearer to 2%.

Or, only about 50% larger than the area covered by golf courses.

Still, some parts of England/London are among the most densely populated parts of Europe, their spread blocked by 'green belt'.

The national minimum wage is rising at the fastest level ever, to the point where many graduate starting salaries are at the same level. Businesses are not paying low wages, especially when you look at the total cost of employment.

Really? Company profits in the UK are at record highs, look at the FTSE all share and 350, mainly UK companies, up 43% in the last 5 years.

If they are paying NMW for a graduate, then yes they are paying low wages but even thats not generally the case, the average staring salary for a graduate last year is 32k to 35k, some 10k more than the NMW.

The U.K. is overpopulated. London is for example full of tourists as well. Which makes a big number of shoppers or people out and about. About services they are still offering less than demand. Which is why is always fully booked.

Busy enough to be planning building a second runway at Gatwick, for a start.

My user name sums me up nicely.
Tomorrow the new budget comes in so I will eat dirt.

I think you make a fair observation OP. British spending habits and the definition and understanding of poverty can be confusing.

Some examples that I can think of from my own immediate circle :

1. family member unemployed for over 2 years, unable to pay bills and in debt of over £70k to family last week renewed his Virgin TV contract because “it’s a necessity”
2. single mother of 3 living on benefits and topped up by generous maintenance, claiming poverty regularly went on 4 foreign holidays in the last 18 months including two long haul. Already planning for next year. I presume she also considers them necessary ?
3. customers in a local food bank where a friend volunteers often have their nails freshly done, hair and eyebrows clearly done professionally or carrying the latest iPhone models

I think the definition of poverty is sometimes skewed in the UK and it doesn’t help those who are genuinely in need ( eg can’t afford heating or to buy a new winter coat) , it doesn’t look good when a person claims it but does any of the above and similar.

Its exactly this. I have multiple degrees, I work continuously to stay relative in my field, work on being promoted, pay huge amount of tax, and spend locally.

The best I have ever been paid in my life is 2006. I was single and living in a brand new, modern house with a sports car in the drive. My wages have risen since then, thankfully, but I am worse off due to inflation. I am currently trying to reduce my outgoings for things like the car and the dentist.

Yes places look busy, but around me hospitality businesses are closing daily, you cant get a dental space, a car service organised months in advance due to lack of trained staff at the garage. I struggle to answers from companies as I am hit online with no staff and the dreaded chatbots.

I am very lucky. My wider family have professionally qualified jobs but are not booking holidays or replacing cars like they used to.

Costa is busy as its a £10 trip, M&S is a nice meal deal for £20. You cant get a main in a local restaurant for under £25 so we no longer go. Its no more complicated than that.

The starting wage of a graduate in real terms has stayed fairly true to inflation rises for the past 25 years (former Graduate co-ordinator for a large firm).

The NMW should be a lot higher IMO.

That's the thing, I don't think I am. I only got the notification this morning so this evening will be checking what it should be and if I am!

The bah humbug feeling is as much about having already been taxed at source already. I'm sure a lot of people must feel the same way.