To not want to be naked in sauna

[lollypoppy123]

I’m going to a fancy hotel in Germany with an amazing spa but I’ve just found out the spa is textile free which means no clothes whatsoever allowed. I’m really uncomfortable with this as I’ve had a mastectomy and my reconstruction is pretty ugly. Even without that, I’d feel weird being naked with strangers.

I'd say, on the whole, that while people are aware of the diversity of bodies around them, they generally don't look with the intent or seeing imperfections or things to judge others upon. I get that @lollypoppy123 has scars, if I became aware of them I'd just think 'how brave', but I understand that she's maybe just feeling insecure, scared, exposed even.

Op, just don’t use the sauna!

Saunas aren’t that large and. during holiday season, very popular, so either accept the rules or don’t go.

There's also the option of wrapping one's body in a light towel and remaining both covered and hygienic.

I don't think I'm being clever, I'm just reversing your words. Regardless, you've made it clear that you are in fact making a value judgement about people who don't wish to be naked in saunas by calling their behaviour prudish, and you do think it's negative. You expect people to be fine with being described as prudish, but you've become very defensive when the reverse has been used to describe sauna culture. It's a double standard.

Personally, I think a person can love their body and be comfortable in it without wanting to reveal their private parts to strangers. Some people are raised to consider total nudity to be an intimate thing that they share with a partner, or only feel comfortable exposing themselves around those of the same sex. Or, some people may indeed have body image issues, or past trauma. I don't think wanting to cover one's genitals or breasts is prudish.

Replies as previously.

Its not true that you don't register people's bodies in the sauna (unless its a particularly dark one), you definitely do but you don't "look" at them, but the impact of different size and shapes of bodies is more for children, who do look because they're still learning sauna etiquette, and it, in theory at least (and I think likely in reality too) helps them develop a more natural body view rather than one shaped by tv and magazines.

Yes, it seems like it would be impossible to not notice/see others' bodies, though I understand the taboo against properly 'looking' or staring, or making any comment. It seems like a very polite environment! I do think for people who feel discomfort about scars or deformities being seen at all, people telling them that 'no one will notice' feels like a lie, as opposed to telling them no one will care/they've seen it all already!

And that makes sense, regarding children. I wasn't thinking of that - thanks.

I think there's a difference between people noticing and being noticeable. People who know me well can tell when I'm tired as my lazy eye is visible, but you have to be either familiar with my face or really looking to notice it. People may notice that OP has mastectomy scars, or they may not, but in a room of varying bodies it will not be noticeable.

Yeah people will clock differences for sure, but also won't care as they will have seen so many differences in bodies throughout their lives that its more mundane than different (except for tourists, who might not be so used to naked bodies, but if they stare or comment they'll be chucked out sharpish I'm sure)

I think the influence on children is a really important thing, its what makes it feel fine to be naked in the sauna in a country with a tradition of sauna, as everyone has had that influence since they were children. I suspect I'd feel uncomfortable naked in a sauna in the UK even when I'm perfectly comfortable in Finland because there isn't that cultural history.

Your last paragraph is so insightful! That makes sense. So much of it is just about cultural norms, and what we grow up with being unremarkable.
While tourists might feel uncomfortable in a Finnish sauna, I suppose if the sauna was 90% tourists for some reason, then the Finns might feel a little uncomfortable too, being surrounded by people who see the sauna as a novelty and don't understand the etiquette in the same way.

A few further thoughts from my previous comments.

l really could not care less who sees me naked, l am totally relaxed about it*. I suspect due to mother’s upbringing. But l’ve not had a mastectomy. Either way, it is not unreasonable for the OP not to be comfortable. It’s her personal choice. It’s a shame she’s missing out though and sauna lighting is usually very low.

• = Long ago l once said on a now defunct site that l was relaxed about being seen naked and received PMs asking me for nude photos. That wasn’t quite what l meant.

I do think there’s a huge difference between a mole / prominent vein etc and mastectomy scars, which is a comparison which has been made on this thread and is really quite offensive.

And prudish is completely the wrong word to describe a breast cancer survivor who doesn’t want to reveal their diagnosis in public. It’s similar to a chemo patient wanting to wear a wig - even if anyone who saw them would just think that they’re brave etc, they may just not want anyone to know or potentially comment.

There an assumption on this thread that everyone who interacts with an ex cancer patient will be very sensitive about it. In my experience 95% of people are, but I have had comments about getting a free boob job, why should the nhs fund reconstruction, tales about how someone’s 75 year old gran didn’t have a reconstruction and was just glad to be cancer free, stories about how lucky I am because a friend of a friend has metastatic breast cancer and died, how their aunt had a reconstruction but shouldn’t have bothered because they have awful scarring on their back as a result, how weird it is that you might get a tattoo of a nipple etc. I haven’t even told many people. I appreciate that all this is unlikely in a German spa but it’s not hard to understand why you might not want to expose yourself and your diagnosis, particularly if you haven’t fully come to terms with it yourself.

It's definitely not unreasonable for OP to be uncomfortable, of course it isn't.
It is unreasonable for people to call the human body disgusting, and it's definitely unreasonable to be asked for nude pics!

Just a thought OP- could you try going for a swim in your local pool or something and see how you feel getting changed in the open benches area rather than a cubicle?

I’m a regular swimmer and prefer the open areas to get changed as there’s more room. I was nervous the first time I swam after my cancer treatment but I quickly realised that no-one gives a crap.

I had a mastectomy last year just before Christmas, and have experienced some comments along similar lines. I didn’t have reconstruction because there was a high risk of infection so have ‘gone flat’, and investigated the possibility of a second mastectomy on the healthy breast because of the high risk of the cancer returning. I’m on a waiting list for the surgery, but even that didn’t escape comment. Some found it unnecessary and even told me I was probably delaying others from having surgery by taking up room on the waiting list - even though the surgeon agreed that if I was willing, it was better to act pre-emptively rather than wait for the signs of the cancer returning.

People say things without thinking and unfortunately there’s not much you can say because until they have experienced the fear you feel on receiving that diagnosis, the apprehension you feel when any little symptom appears, the physical pain and the psychological effects of losing a breast, they really don’t know. I draw the line at anyone with two healthy breasts and no experience of cancer telling me I’m ‘lucky’ though. They can fuck right off.

No. Have posted several times from the point of view of having had a mastectomy - which was the OP’s reason for posting. My advice is if you can’t take it don’t dish it out. You commented that it was impolite not to tag posters if you were referring to them, and at the same time, corrected the posters’ grammar. I commented because it’s a shitty thing to do. It’s frowned upon on MN, and rightly so because there are posters of all abilities here, including some who may be dyslexic or have learning difficulties, and it’s really not very nice to question posters’ intelligence or draw attention to something that may be difficult or embarrassing for some. HTH.

Eh?
I've not 'dished' anything 'out' and have responded to different views. The particular comment of yours I quoted added nothing though. HTH

Again, nobody called @lollypoppy123 prudish. The prudish comments resulted from the assertion that the human body is 'disgusting', 'Germans are weird' and the general consensus that human bodies are somehow shameful. Of course OP is not being unreasonable to worry about having scars.

Nope.

It's because if you're in a bikini you can't wash properly so you're dirty and/or sweaty, then taking extra sweat into the pool or worse after using the toilet

Yep.

The swimming costume and bikini often contain chlorine, in addition to other chemicals that you don’t want to heat up and expose to others on a hot sauna.

No you’re not being unreasonable. The same thing happened to me and a group of friends on a girls holiday. Our one you had to book a time so we thought great we will have it to our selves. But when we got there we were told no clothing or swimsuits were allowed, at the start it was awkward and embarrassing and we were all trying to cover our bits. But pretty quickly we loosened up and it wasn’t so bad in the end. But I definitely wouldn’t want to be naked in one around strangers and it’s not unreasonable at all to not want to do it

This is a great idea. My local swim place got rid of all the changing cubicals to make more space and the first time I was very shy about it was not comfortable at all. Until I realised no one cares and everyone probably feels the same way and pays no attention to others