Will the cost of electricity and gas ever come back down again.

[1457bloom]

Pre Covid, I wouldn’t think twice about putting the heating on, now it seems like a luxury.

Yes and no. High energy prices don’t attract significant new supply becuase of regulation. That’s central planning.

The wholesale price is set by a mechanism determined (almost always) by the gas price. That’s central planning.

A signifiant portion of the energy price is taxes and net zero levies. That’s (arguably) central planning.

Of course the greenest tech is nuclear power. Always has been. When 1 tonne of U235 (with some twiddling) can give you tens of thousands of tonnes of coal (or cubic kilometres of gas) energy.

If only there was a way to turn it into electricity ?

@MayaPinion I think a few wrong turns in the environmental movement have done a lot of damage to the net zero cause. Anti-nuclear and degrowth in particular.

That Green leader whose name escapes me now who has been opposing nuclear projects for 20 years now, by arguing that they’ll take 20 years to deliver and we need action now. If we’d spent the last few decades building nuclear we wouldn’t have to choose between net zero or growth/affordable heating. Give the public those options and you are setting net zero up to fail.

Petrol prices reached £2 litre 5 years ago.

I regret I have but one upvote to give you.

If we’d spent the last few decades building nuclear we wouldn’t have to choose between net zero or growth/affordable heating.

We'd also have the cheapest electricity in Europe - because we'd sell it to them.

The wider issue is that if Europe had continued with nuclear, rather than listening to non scientists, there the Ukraine war would have had much less economic impact.

True. Twenty years ago, it could be finished now.

Honestly I want people in power to look at best options and do them - and get power prices down so our industry isn't being crippled and more and more of the population doesn't fall into fuel poverty.

TBH suspect we need some tech improvement on electrical storage options so we can use all the generated wind power - I know research is happening.

I'd also like government run schemes to have better outcomes than the insulating one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3w965gz8zgo
According to the National Audit Office (NAO) 98% of homes that had external wall insulation installed under the schemes set up by the previous government have problems that will lead to damp and mould if left unaddressed.
Nearly a third, or 29%, of the homes that were given internal insulation also need fixing, it said.

This government and the last haven't dealt with the issue of high energy costs - I suspect in winter months the worry over heating costs and waiting to turn heating on is playing very much into the depressing narrative around the UK when large swaths of the population are starting to just feel fucked off with everything.

Unlikely to come down much now.

We won’t be reliant on dwindling supplies of fossil fuels. We won’t be subjected to such fluctuating costs and frequent price increases. We won’t be vulnerable to wars in foreign countries. We’ll be pumping fewer noxious gases into the atmosphere (so we’ll see health improvements, especially in young people), and we’ll be paying a lot less for our energy.

Not unless we get serious about nuclear power, no....

Honestly I want people in power to look at best options and do them

But that is exactly what they are doing. However you missed out the bit where today makes sense.

Because the people in power are choosing the best options for themselves (and chums). If you aren't on that bus ... well, sorry.

Tories did increase renewables a lot

But they refused point blank to do anything about Nuclear, even Hinkley was proposed for under the Labour Govt.

Then when they did start Hinkley having delayed it for years, they jumped in with the Chinese and an extremely expensive min price.

And the highest electricity costs in the world. Even more jobs lost due to businesses exiting the uk due to high energy costs.

Why can't "the market" just set up and build renewable energy generating assets.

Sometimes "the market" needs a hand. Otherwise we would still be rewiring our house to change energy suppliers.

Just looking at my bills
Elec Nov 2021 kwh 15.94p SC 23.6p
Elec Nov 2025 kwh 23.36 SC 58.46p
Increase kw 46.55% and standing charge 147.7% increase

Gas Nov 21 kwh 3.5p SC 22.6p
Gas Nov 25 kwh 6.23p SC 29.68
Increase kwh 78% and SC 31.3%

As you already see, "the market" is skewed with standing charges on top of energy costs.

Even if your total usage for a month was 0KWh for gas and electric, you'd be paying a pretty penny.

my understanding is that to attract investment for clean energy such as wind farms, the government has to pay a high price for the energy produced to the developer and commit to continue paying an elevated price for many years, sometimes as long as 20 years. So whilst in principle the cost of wind or solar is free, in practice it makes no difference to our very high energy bills.

I think there's some reverse auction bidding thing that competes the price down

I don’t know about domestic electricity, but commercial electricity has to. Having the most expensive commercial electricity in the world is killing enterprise and destroying jobs. It’s the most backward approach to running an economy.

We have the third most expensive electricity in the world, ours is 0.4 kw -hr, the US is less than half 0.14 kw-hr and China is 0.08 kw -hr nearly quarter.

electricity world comparison

It really is.

If we wanted cheap(er) energy we would not have left the EU.

We were warned. We did it anyway. And it's frankly too late to whine about it.

Want cheaper energy quickly ? Join a massive trading bloc that can leverage bulk purchases.

This has nothing to do with net zero and everything to do with Thatcher's energy privatisation and Brexit (as leaving a powerful trading block reduced our buying power).

It is absuloutely crazy that we are basically subsidising French energy because state-owned EDF (Electricite de France) is able to charge us a fortune while keeping prices across the channel low. Other privatised energy companies are paying out huge dividends to shareholders and paying their fat cats board large sums which we are subsidising.

Our only hope is GB Energy which, when fully up and running with the resources to power most homes, will undercut the cartel and lead to a better deal for the British public.