Will the cost of electricity and gas ever come back down again.

[1457bloom]

Pre Covid, I wouldn’t think twice about putting the heating on, now it seems like a luxury.

Or I don't believe in fairies.

If that’s the case, where is this economic growth you speak of?

What possessed the UK to privatise and sell of so much of its national infra-structure is mind boggleing, rail, energy, steel, housing, wtf were they actually thinking?

Well it really goes back to 1832.

However the point is that if you start interfering in the market you end up back in the 1970s.when things were proper shit. I mean you live a life where your 7 year old child has to get home to light the candles for you and your 5 and 1 year old to get back from nursery and tell me it was better back then. And I will call you a care face liar.

I mean the current economic situation needs not be majorly caused by net zero and by the energy policy?

I don't think the current economic situation post COVID is due to pro renewable energy policy

Or, step up net zero and incentivise solar panels, heat pumps, and battery storage. This is a no brainer - the energy is free/very low cost, controlled by you, and it’s not going to run out. It’s not subject to wars in foreign lands and the costs aren’t going to increase. We’re about to get started on this and I’m only annoyed we didn’t do it sooner.

It was quite fun though. We loved it. Playing murder in the dark

Yeah, let's just fuck the planet.

We're 1% of emissions and 0.8% of global population, so we're already pumping out more than our fair share.

The world needs net zero.

If we reached net zero, how will that impact global emissions? Nada?

Didn't the Exxon plant shut down due to net zero?

People say manufacturing is stuffed due to the high energy prices

Nail on the head. People were saying this a decade or more ago. No one listened and costs WILL get higher as more net zero lunacy spreads.

I have no idea but something needs to be done.
I'm very pi$$ed off about it all ☹️

Quite aside from the side effect of making the UK a world leader in these technologies (exportable talent) they also make the grid more resilient.

And fans of nuclear, like me (the ultimate zero emissions power) will note the 6 SMRs (not the Miliband TikTok "ASMRs" 😀) that similarly will provide jobs and energy are in the mix.

I ask again, where is this growth that net 0 is bringing?

The reason "net zero" has pushed up prices is that it required us to close down or mothball all of our coal burning power plants. Some of that capacity was replaced by renewables but most was replaced by gas.

So we have replaced cheap coal with relatively expensive (since the Ukraine war) gas.

This is what Tories and their supporters have been voting for for 30 years. These things dont just happen to us. We chose this.

Petrol and diesel do go up and down though. The price at my local filling stations has dropped two or three times in the last month or so.

Only by a few pence a litre, admittedly, but for someone doing a lot of miles every week it's enoough to make a difference.

The cost of non-renewables is going to continue to skyrocket because they are getting more and more scarce, and harder and harder to get to. There is no getting round the fact that they are not limitless - once they’re gone they’re gone. Some estimates suggest there’s about 30 years worth of oil and 40 years worth of gas left (https://mahb.stanford.edu/library-item/fossil-fuels-run/). They’re not going to get cheaper, and will likely become too expensive for the domestic consumer. There is a huge imperative to move towards renewables - they’re cheap after the initial outlay, much less damaging to the environment, and most importantly, they won’t run out anytime soon. We shouldn’t be dropping net zero; if anything we need to be speeding it up. Reliance on fossil fuels makes us vulnerable and we can remove that at a stroke by investing in clean (and cheap) energy.

Assuming you mean bills and not the wholesale cost of energy production, then no. They won't. Because of net zero and the absolutely insane drive to become carbon neutral.

The energy price cap is going up yet again to pay for the net zero subsidies as well, so everyone's going to be digging deeper (comrades).

What possessed the UK to privatise and sell of so much of its national infra-structure is mind boggleing, rail, energy, steel, housing, wtf were they actually thinking?

The Tories under Thatcher were ideologically opposed to nationalised industries which they regarded as tantamount to Marxism, and they thought that if they gave the public a chance to buy shares, we'd all think we were rich and never vote Labour again.

I was working for one of the regional gas boards in the mid-70s, and the government had to approve all price rises. They could be kept low, and subsidised from taxation, or raised and any surplus reinvested in infrastructure or handed over to the government.

We have some of the highest energy costs in the world though are domestic costs aren't as high as some other- and it's likely impacting the economy.

Full Fact:Does the UK have the ‘most expensive’ electricity in the world?

I heard radio 4 have some expert on explaining how the electrical bidding system works - apparently everyone gets the highest rate needed for that 30 minutes - which seems really odd - and we also can't use all the wind generated.

So yes all my family now think twice about heating and energy costs - IL have a wood burning stoves which if new would have to meet stricter requirements - next door now have two huge Chimney- right outside our window and doors - and I'm not sure how regulated the emmisons are.

The retail energy industry is so broken. Effectively it is price controlled through the price cap, which works in a way that allows suppliers to make a modest profit. If you look at the retail energy part of any supplier you’ll find that they are almost loss making - serving customers within the price cap alongside all the ridiculous expectations of the regulator is really challenging. The regulator is ineffective (we’re paying for that through our bills by the way) and there are so many levies on the bill that we’re paying way over the actual cost of energy. The massive profits that get reported by the vertically integrated suppliers come from generation of energy not selling it to the public. Alongside that, wholesale prices are very high so consumer bills can’t be brought down without govt subsidies - and there is no money available to pay everyone’s energy bills.

Are renewables actually cheaper?

Yes, they’re less than half of non renewables equivalent lifetime costs.

https://www.nationalgrid.com/the-great-grid-upgrade/fact-or-fiction

I notice that's been quietly forgotten for the time being - I imagine until after the budget when the media will ramp up their campaign to get rid of Reeves ASAP.

COctopus put out a statement recently that energy costs would rise 20% in the next five years.

Creation of Wind farms, nuclear, heat pumps all are being subbed by our existing energy bills. The money has to come from somewhere.

UK has had super hi energy prices for many years, long before net zero.

Exxon plant has been losing money for at least 5 years and its closure is part of a larger European cost cutting plan.

Easier to blame someone else.

However, generally speaking Net Zero is bonkers, giving subsidies so we can go out and buy cheap Chinese EVs, whilst UK and European car plants shut down.