That Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock should be prosecuted for the avoidable Covid deaths

[LlynTegid]

The part 2 report of the Covid inquiry finds that at least 20,000 deaths were avoidable, had restrictions come in a week earlier.

Various other findings confirming the failures of Mr Johnson and Mr Hancock.

I think they should face criminal charges, such as corporate manslaughter given government is an employer. AIBU

Johnson could have attended cobra meetings and not wasted a month saying it would all amount to nothing.

I didn't mean your personal hindsight, but the enquiry's hindsight.

The government that we had had the time was unprofessional and shambolic Johnson and Hancock should never be allowed to be on government again

of course it was very challenging to get things right but they decided to play on keeping popular with the public and play on people’s British sensibilities than take action until they had no choice

I’m on the earlier lockdown side, but not longer/harder, it was bad enough esp the one in early 2021 which imho, ruined DS’s mental health.

I often have ‘sliding door’ thoughts that if lockdown hadn’t happened the DCs would be in completely different places (they are esrly 20s now - one missed GCSEs, other, A levels).

Then there was partygate, a fucking insult to us all.

Because they live with the threat of ebola and are therefore shit hot at infection control?

I can imagine. We were desperate in that last week for the schools to lockdown but felt with fines etc we couldn't just stop our kids going. I remember a morning that week being on the bus which was absolutely packed as usual but weirdly quiet. It was not nice. Usually all the school kids from the different schools on there would've been talking, shouting, jostling as normal.

I got COVID that week too. 100% we and loads of the other parents we knew would've jumped at the chance of an earlier lockdown. Not that lockdown was any fun but it needed to happen earlier and was clear it should've happened earlier.

Bullshit. A pandemic had been predicted for decades.

I’m taking it you haven’t read the report then. It’s the earlier lockdowns which could have saved the lives.

I’m torn on this. I am properly angry with Matt Hancock and Chris Wormauld for repeating the line that were are more prepared for a pandemic than anyone else in the world when that was not the case. I think that added to general complacency / exceptionalism.

But in terms of the first lockdown hindsight is a wonderful thing. Italy did the world a great service allowing cameras into their ICUs but didn’t do so immediately for the obvious reason they were a bit busy.

The September lockdown is the main area where it’s harder to understand. They knew what they were dealing with by then.

The people I would really love to see prosecuted are those who spread misinformation during the pandemic. They face actual blood on their hands. Those who photographed an empty outpatient department and claimed it meant no one was really in hospital. The people who spread misinformation about masks. Those who scared the cap out of people by claiming there was a new variant which was killing children. Disgusting, malign behaviour.

It was predicted and appropriate preparations advised. They ignored this.

People from the future dealing with another pandemic might find it useful....?

1. The scientific advice was not as consistent as you might think. This is referred to in the report.
2. we had just had a general election in December 2019 in which the Tories had a won a landslide victory. Labour were in disarray, trying to find a way to replace Corbyn and the idea that Sturgeon would have joined in with some kind of unity government is laughable.

Its fairly obvious that if you don't run down PPE equipment, dont have parties, don't focus on shagging and getting pissed in the evenings but instead focus on the job in hand, outcomes will be very different.

I ve often wondered how those people working in Govt functioned as they drunk themselves stupid.

Look at Care homes and the policies on Schools? they had no idea, the ex ministers, inc Johnson has even said so.

What they did to Schools was unforgiveable and has impacts many years later, 1m young people economically inactive.

Highest number of people registered sick in all of Europe.

As an aside I found the delivery of the inquiry's opinions very weird, that lady <I forget her name> talking directly to the camera as if telling a bedtime story was rather strange.

What they did to care homes was even more unforgivable - 25,000 untested patients discharged from hospitals into them.

Which is why I think Hancock should face criminal charges.

I wonder if the families whose loved ones died before the first lockdown have legal grounds to mount a private prosecution against Johnson and Hancock in the meantime.

Yes those assessed as medically fit by doctors discharged to free up nhs beds needed for the surge of very ill people. Perhaps they should have kept everyone for 3 months until widespread testing available and left those critically ill with covid in the carpark?

Care homes should have isolated patients and implemented infection control protocols. Perhaps the next inquiry will be into the failings of rich care home owners.

I completely agree. It was certainly a major contributory factor in those 23k excess deaths.

I hated that government for multiple reasons, but I think they faced an impossible situation which no one knew how to handle and don't know where all the people are/were who would have done better. I don't think the enquiry is helpful to anyone.

I actually felt sorry for Johnson at the beginning which is one of the reasons why I thought there should have been, at least, an all party committee. He turned out to be probably the most incompetent PM in history.

The finding of the inquiry should be useful for whoever has to deal with a future pandemic. There is certain to be one so it's not pointless..

The report also said that the overall death toll would not necessarily have been reduced by earlier lockdown.

Also, all the scientific advice in the early days was to follow the influenza pandemic plan.

There were tons of PPE equipment destroyed prior to the pandemic due to improper storage. There were plenty of warnings a pandemic was overdue. There was a training exercise in 2018 whose lessons were not implemented. THere was a pandemic advisory committee that Johnson disbanded.

I think the elephants in the room are Tory austerity and Brexit that took the governments eye off what really mattered, for years.

Not to mention people like Michelle Mone and Hancock[s mates seeing it as a once in a lifetime opportunity for personal enrichment.

Unfair, it was a new virus and they had to keep people safe and keep the country going. Thousands and thousands (I don’t know exact figures) die from flu every year particularly the elderly. As pp said the inquiry will help in the future for the next pandemic.

A quick google says that anywhere between 3,500 and 15,000 die each year of flu, depending on the severity of the year's main variant @pilates . Apparently this winter is shaping up to be a bad one. So get your flu jabs while you can!