Donald Trump BBC

[Daygloboo]

If Donald Trump gets compensation from the BBC to the tune of a million, which might affect our license fee payments, would it be appropriate to stop buying goods from US for a while. I think the BBC were wrong to misrepresent what Trump said, but effectively suing the population as a retaliation seems a step too far.

I posted part of this yesterday, but I’ll post again. This is the conclusion of Trump’s speech. Note the key phrases.

”And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country.

And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give.

The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.”

The only statement missing in this conclusion is ‘peacefully and patriotically’, but he did say that about 15 minutes before this. The statement above is vitriolic, to say the least, in any case. The words were stated, and closely together.

Absolute nail on the head.

Quite scary the amount of people only skimming over the story and just saying the BBC is wrong and looking no deeper into the nuances of the story. I was guilty of this myself until I read further into it.

Robbie Gibb should be made to step down with immediate effect. These are very dangerous times indeed when an American president is bullying one of our flagship institutions and people on the inside are aiding him to do so. Boris Johnson’s decisions also still playing out and impacting us.

As others have said, Trump does not have a case here, he’s already been impeached for this, iPlayer isn’t available in America and it was aired 3 years after. Whilst the editing error was wrong, absolutely no doubt about that. It’s total codswallop that the BBC can be sued for this. I suspect the story will go away now Trump has bigger issues to worry about with more Epstein revelations.

I suggest a lot of people reading this are just bitter having to pay their TV licence fee, well that fee looks like a bargain unless you want to go to an American style media output. I’ll be kind to say it’s just sheer ignorance people believe that there is left wing bias at the BBC. We are very lucky to have an independent media outlet such as the BBC and it must be protected from bullies like Trump and the nefarious actions of Robbie Gibb from the inside at all costs!

I see we’ve moved on to personal attacks.

For the record, I support a public service broadcaster and have never once quibbled over paying my licence fee. I’m less convinced about the need for publicly funded light entertainment but I think an impartial news source that deals in facts is really important in these times. It’s why I’m so angry with the BBC (and not just for this incident).

I don’t know enough about US law to know what chance Trump has in court and I don’t really care. I care about our national broadcaster putting themselves in this position through their own behaviour.

But of course both the BBC and government should try to rescue the situation? It's not vitriol to suggest thst there needs to be some grovelling and apology. It was a huge error of judgement and they have to face the consequences. Making the odd mistake can be forgiven but when it gets to something cropping up constantly, it's then verging on gross incompetence and failures at the top. Just because they perform good in other areas it doesn't mean we should forgive and sweep under the carpet gross errors of judgement.

And I posted this yesterday, in response to you, but I will post again:

The full transcript is available here:
https://www.npr.org/2021/02/10/966396848/read-trumps-jan-6-speech-a-key-part-of-impeachment-trial

Over 8000 words were omitted between the first part, which Panorama cut mid-sentence, and the part near the end, beginning 'And we fight ...'

He uses the word 'fight' a lot in this speech. Nowhere is it obvious he means stage an insurrection or commit violence. His words at the beginning, which Panorama cut: 'to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard', suggest the opposite.

In several places he very obviously means 'fight' as in a political fight. For example, he says that Rudy Guiliani, Jim Jordan and the 'House guys' fight. He says of Republican candidates 'we have to primary the hell out of the ones that don't fight.'

Talking about the media, he uses 'fight' several times and obviously means an argument. He says 'But you know, it used to be that they'd argue with me. I'd fight. So I'd fight, they'd fight, I'd fight, they'd fight. Pop pop. You'd believe me, you'd believe them. Somebody comes out. You know, they had their point of view, I had my point of view, but you'd have an argument.

'Now what they do is they go silent. It's called suppression and that's what happens in a communist country. That's what they do, they suppress. You don't fight with them anymore.'

None of this is to say that Trump is not a dangerous arsehole who was thrilled by the events of Jan 6. I'm not saying that he did not incite those events. The speech as a whole could be seen as covert incitement, although I seem to remember at the time his tweets were considered much stronger evidence than this speech.

What I am saying is that the Panorama splice deliberately misrepresented what he said and completely changed the overt meaning.

I don't expect decent behaviour from Trump. I do expect it from the BBC and one of the most shocking aspects of this whole thing is the number of people who are completely fine with the BBC abandoning accuracy and impartiality as long as the 'victim' is someone we don't like.
----------
The two parts of the spliced quote were not 15 minutes apart, they were almost an hour apart. I'm not sure why you think that makes any difference anyway.

Thank you. That source is the exact one I’m quoting from. I’m not sure I agree that Panorama’s quote took a part from the beginning on the speech - that is the point I’m attempting to make. The words are right there in the conclusion of the speech rather than more than an hour apart.

The first part of the spliced edit was taken from early in the speech from this part:
'We're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women"
This has been confirmed via multiple sources i don't think the BBC is claiming differently.

The edit shown on BBC newsnight also used the same two speech sections but left in the middle part from cheering to women:
"We're going to walk down to the Capitol. And we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women. And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not gonna have a country anymore."

Both the edits are discussed here - by the BBC: www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr5e9erpnzlo

I agree with all of this, Livelovebeehappy, except that this wasn't a "mistake".
Worse, I read a BBC quote the other day saying they were merely trying to present it in a way that indicated "how it had come across", as if they're able to know this except perhaps among preferred, tiny focus groups, and as if that's their job anyway

As PPs have mentioned journalistic guidelines are supposed to apply across the entire sector, but the rest of it doesn't expect to be funded by a pretty well compulsory effective tax

There are two places he talks about going to the Capitol.

The passage near the beginning:

Now, it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this, we're going to walk down, and I'll be there with you, we're going to walk down, we're going to walk down.

Anyone you want, but I think right here, we're going to walk down to the Capitol, and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them.

Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

-----------
The passage right at the end:

I think one of our great achievements will be election security. Because nobody until I came along had any idea how corrupt our elections were.

And again, most people would stand there at 9 o'clock in the evening and say I want to thank you very much, and they go off to some other life. But I said something's wrong here, something is really wrong, can have happened.

And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

Our exciting adventures and boldest endeavors have not yet begun. My fellow Americans, for our movement, for our children, and for our beloved country.

And I say this despite all that's happened. The best is yet to come.

So we're going to, we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue. I love Pennsylvania Avenue. And we're going to the Capitol, and we're going to try and give.

The Democrats are hopeless — they never vote for anything. Not even one vote. But we're going to try and give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help. We're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country.

So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

---------
The Panorama edit, as reported in the Prescott memo:

“We’re gonna walk down to the Capitol and I’ll be with you and we fight. We fight like hell and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not gonna have a country anymore.”

It takes a little more splicing to create this exact quote but the phrase 'I'll be [there] with you' is only found in the first passage.

In the second passage, he says "walk down Pennsylvania Avenue" and "we're going to the Capitol" but not "we're going to walk down to the Capitol". That phrase is also only found in the first passage.

So the first part of the Panorama splice, “We’re gonna walk down to the Capitol and I’ll be with you ..." is from the first passage, near the start of the speech, and the second, 'fight like hell' part is from right near the end.

I still don't understand what difference you think it makes.

In the second passage, 'fight like hell' appears to relate to the preceding paragraphs about election security (note the word 'And ...'). As discussed earlier, he uses the word 'fight' many times in the speech and most times it's clear he means a political fight or an argument.

'Going to the Capitol' comes after 'fight like hell' in the second passage and seems to be part of the summing up.

It doesn't matter which particular mention of going to the Capitol you pick. The splice implied Trump said they were going to the Capitol to fight like hell and he didn't say that.

I am now bored shitless with Trump's speech and will not be trawling through it again.