The 2 child benefit cap lift will be cancelled out by the weekly benefit cap

[Pinkbowls]

I keep seeing all this talk about families with 6+ kids “racking it in” if the two-child benefit cap is lifted, and honestly, it’s hogwash. Here’s the reality:

If the Labour government does lift the two-child cap, it will mainly help low-income working families and families who are claiming disability benefits. These households aren’t subject to the cap, so the poorest families and those who genuinely need extra support for a third or fourth child are the ones who will benefit.

For a single adult with two children outside London, the monthly benefit cap is around £1,832 (~£423 per week). In London, it’s higher, about £2,108 per month (~£486 per week).

Now let’s break it down roughly for someone renting privately:

• Assume the standard allowance + personal allowance for the adult + child elements (for 2 kids) = around £1,200–£1,300/month.
• Private rent in many parts of the UK, and especially in London, can easily eat £800–£1,200/month.
• Add council tax support (which helps a bit, but only partially) and you can see that most of the cap is already taken up.

So in reality, lifting the two-child cap doesn’t suddenly create a pile of extra cash. For families on benefits but below the cap, the extra child element for a third or fourth child may only leave a modest amount after rent and council tax.

The idea that parents with 6+ children will suddenly be sitting on a fortune is completely overblown. The system is designed so that the support goes to those who genuinely need it, not to families already comfortably above the threshold.

The main winners of this policy will be:

• Low-income working families who are earning enough to be under the cap and can actually receive the child element for additional children.
• Families claiming disability benefits, who aren’t subject to the cap at all.

It’s important to separate myths from reality: this is about helping the most vulnerable and supporting working families, not about rewarding large families for being on benefits.

LOL it really isn't. It's not tax evasion when they're following the rules set up for them. I can accrue wealth in assets and live off them and never pay tax because I'm not going to be foolish and sell them. The fact you think people becoming billionaires through lack of fair taxation is equivalent to you buying something at duty free is laughable. You are just that desperate to go to bat for a rich person and bagger the poor.

Or course you wanna vouch for the mega rich but you're happy to assume all benefit claimants are doing the system, or irresponsible and feckless. It's embarrassing frankly.

But this doesn't change the fact that there are some very rich people paying little to no tax and residing in the UK with extraordinary amounts of wealth.

Look up the definition of tax evasion for the love of god! We all own assets and don't pay tax on them. Do you have a wardrobe with clothes in it or a cupboard with food in it? I imagine you paid whatever tax was due at the time of purchase but the state can't keep chasing you every year you own the jumper to pay them some tax. The idea that asset ownership is some kind of tax evasion scheme is mad.

Including those who pay virtually no tax through legal tax avoidance schemes?

For example, the Duke of Westminster who avoided an estimated £3billion, yes £3billion, inheritance tax through legal means.

But yeah, let’s hammer poor Daisy whose husband died and left her with 3 young DC she “can’t afford”.

She wasn't left them. She presumably chose to have them too. You act like she has been bequeathed them like someone would leave you an antique vase.

Taxing the rich is a red herring. If it was that easy to do then other countries would be successfully doing it. Nobody is. That's why this is a global issue. Pretending that the UK can somehow trap all the billionaires here and force them to pay tax just isn't realistic. Look at other countries that tried wealth taxes and look at what happened to their overall tax intake. Your ideology is droving you towards bad policy that will ultimately adversely impact our most vulnerable. We need more tax paid not less. Driving out rich people and business won't help you achieve your aims. For contrast, look at Ireland and what happens when you work with wealth and business rather than trying to destroy it.

I can accrue wealth in assets and live off them and never pay tax because I'm not going to be foolish and sell them.

Do you think that's not taxed? Because it is.

Exactly the money will be extracted somehow which will ultimately be taxed.

I never used the words tax evasion for the love of god! I am not accusing these people of a crime. I'm saying the system is designed in their favour to allow them to accrue at extraordinary high levels without paying tax on it meanwhile low and normal earners tax at being pitted against benefit claimants as though the only possible solution is to tax normal working people more instead of taxing the feckless wealthy people.

Nope it won't! How? You do understand they deliberately can avoid doing this at all, and do so. Sure maybe on death when the assets are inherited but the rich have ways to avoid that also.

You don't pay tax on an asset or shares you haven't sold. You have to be extraordinarily naive to think that wealth is taxed anywhere near as fairly as income.or that it even gets taxed in most cases.

I'm actually amazed that some people don't realise that the very rich can avoid paying income tax altogether.
Isn't this common knowledge?? It's mentioned in almost every election campaign. I could give loads of examples of how it's possible. It loses us millions.

Doesn’t answer my question as to why you assumed I was on benefits. But I’ll answer yours: no one owes anyone a living. But personally I’m glad society has evolved beyond the days when those who couldn’t earn their own living were left to starve in the gutter. I realise not everyone cares about other people though.

She wasn't left them. She presumably chose to have them too. You act like she has been bequeathed them like someone would leave you an antique vase.

This in response to a situation of a widow is just disgusting, you have been on so many threads n this topic lately showing that you have no knowledge of this issue except vitriol towards benefit claimants to the point you're even aiming it at single windowed mother's. Why are you so bitter?

Income tax isn't the only form of tax though. It's hard to extract money without paying any tax. Whether it be corporation tax, CGT, dividend tax etc

Yes it seems there’s resentment over the disabled not working and getting benefits but equal resentment when they do work but need reasonable adjustments. Basically if you’re disabled you’re going to be judged no matter what you do.

You have to pay income tax on dividends from said shares though - which is how you'd extract the money. It's currently 33.75% so that's a nice contribution to the state coffers.

Seriously, there's no magic loophole around this other than not being a UK resident. And going harder on the wealthy will mean that more of them take that option, reducing tax revenue.

This is a metaphorical example. Daisy isn't real.

My point is that tragedy can impact us all at anytime. Not even just tragedy but bad luck or hardship. You can lose your job. You can become ill or disabled. Your business could go bust. This is why having three children or more is something that needs to be very carefully thought about and to be absolutely fair to the children that you are choosing to have, you need to make sure you have a fantastic level of resilience including life insurance policies etc. You don't just decide to have children on a wing and a prayer.

This. Its like people are jealous.

Jealous of a lifetime of disability. Every single thing being harder to do, to achieve. But fuck them.

You have all that debt to pay so it's your creditors getting your money.

David Cameron claimed PIP.

Wait, so someone who says they are too disabled to work is taking the piss if they have a relationship?

Studying, dating, having kids is totally different to work.

Don’t be ridiculous.

It is possible and it happens. My brother in law is a tax accountant. It is perfectly possible to live in the UK, earn extraordinary amounts and pay no tax. It's really important people realise this.
Offshore accounts can be used to fund a house, a car, school fees, an extravagant lifestyle, and all written off as business expenses.
Someone can own a company worth 100s of millions. Instead of paying themselves dividends or a salary they take out a personal loan against company shares. The loan isn't income and doesn't get taxed and on his death it's written off or rolled into a company trust.
There are non-doms that can live here and avoid tax for years.
There are so so many different ways. I could go on and on. He explicitly days that his very richest clients pay no income tax or tax on their earnings whatsoever.

I'm not a rich person hater. Its really important that we keep rich people here, we need them! But it's absolute nonsense that all rich people contribute a lot in tax.

Having children is much much harder than working virtually any job, and I stand by that.

This is utter madness why is the council paying £1,900 rent on a flat for someone??? Surely there should be a cap....she is in an expensive flat paying £200. That is wrong...doesn't make sense....

I thought there were caps on rent that the council will pay?