To be so intrigued by America?

[hollyblueivy]

AIBU to be so intrigued by America and just how vastly different it is to the UK despite both being rich modern nations?

Trump features a lot in the UK news and it has made me look into why the US seem so uncaring. Their systems to help the vulnerable are so different to ours. They have no right to housing so many can easily risk facing homelessness. With no national health service, access to healthcare is much more difficult and expensive, pushing people into deprivation even if they are working.

They don’t seem to have the same socialist heart as the UK and it gives a very much dog eat dog and every man for themselves culture.

I don’t think I fully appreciated this before. Anyone else?

My knee jerk observations about the US. And yes I've been there in various States but only for two weeks at a time so I can admit my obs are probably not representative of life there as a whole and are slightly tongue in cheek.

People are very welcoming and hospitable
Houses are absolutely huge with massive "yards"
Very little fencing between properties
HOAs have huge power to make you conform, with little freedom to do your own thing in your own house very often
Everyone has to have a car (middle of big cities excepted, but only where there's good public transport).
Kids drive at 16.
The driving test is very easy
Many drink and drug drive. Although Uber is helping that somewhat now I think.
Guns and open carry.
School shootings
Must go to church/be religious in certain parts of the country, it's a passport into the community (whether you really are a believer or not)
The cost of healthcare is dependent on your job and your insurance package/co pay amount. Medicare is there for less fortunate.
Not a lot of foreign travel is done, but then again the US is so big and varied it's not necessary
RVs are very popular
Lots more but that's enough for now.

Overall, a nice place with nice people, if you are in the right place to enjoy this.

I remember a girl collapsing at a concert I was at in America , I’m medical so did the very basics but she remained unconscious. She could have been diabetic or had an overdose or who knows. I said to security to call 911 and they kept saying we needed her consent as she’d have to pay for the ambulance (!!) I couldn’t believe it as she was in no position to consent to anything! They reluctantly called for an ambulance in the end but it was so bizarre to me as a Brit all the time wasting.

The people at the churches probably didn’t believe her because food bank workers will move heaven and earth to get a hungry baby fed. They’re either volunteers or working for very little salary, because they have a passion for this type of work. They typically have connections with other food banks or retailers and will start contacting other people to work it out. They don’t just say, “Nope, no formula here - too bad for you.”

You’re not grasping how common it is for people to steal or fraudulently obtain baby formula to sell it. Some more cases:

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/nation-world/2016/01/07/big-dollar-baby-formula-thefts-spread-across-us/15695200007/

https://www.ozarksfirst.com/news/2-women-arrested-for-stealing-baby-formula-from-grocery-stores/amp/

https://www.14news.com/2024/03/23/police-thieves-caught-stealing-20k-worth-baby-formula-local-walmarts/?outputType=amp

https://www.ksl.com/article/50960848/2-california-men-arrested-accused-of-stealing-baby-formula-from-utah-idaho-stores

https://kutv.com/news/local/2-suspects-in-retail-theft-ring-accused-of-stealing-30k-worth-of-baby-formula-to-resell

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/05/02/magazine/money-issue-baby-formula-crime-ring.html

Must go to church/be religious in certain parts of the country, it's a passport into the community (whether you really are a believer or not)

Where would this be? I live in the Deep South aka the Bible Belt and I know quite a few people who do not belong or go to church, with no social repercussions whatsoever.

Hi, as I said I've only visited for short periods, but it's an impression I got when in the South. Church was a big big thing and lots of things revolved around it. I got the feeling that in the small community I stayed in that church was the central part of their lives, and they were not very religious people either! I haven't seen a similar thing in the UK really, so it's a cultural difference.

I meant no offence, it was just an observation.

On the US left being very left in certain quarters - totally. Mamdani is much closer to Corbyn or France's Melenchon than anyone else on the European left.

No offense taken; it's just that the "churchiness" of the Deep South is one of the biggest misconceptions about this area of the country. Church is certainly important to many people, but even in small rural communities, it is easily possible to live quite happily as a full member of the community without a religious identity or practice.

At the food bank where I volunteer, we would move heaven and earth to get that mother the formula, including paying out of our own pockets.

We would also ensure she was receiving the WIC to which she was entitled, and most likely connect her with a case worker to ensure she was receiving help from the many sources available.
www.maine.gov/dhhs/mecdc/healthy-living/wic/get-support/wic-program-and-benefits/wic-food-benefits

BTW our food bank, like many, operates out of a church's premises.

Do you know who doesn’t go without? The dozens of bright underprivileged students whose full scholarships will be funded by this man’s donation.

And maybe the fake baby crying in the background sounded obviously fake.

That's true. But the fella is probably not going without.

We could play who goes without poker.

I raise you food stamps. Next time the repubs claim there is not enough tax revenue to fund SNAP, people will go without.

It's not as if US Universities are struggling. Not the big ones. Harvard has over 50 billion in endowments, and still begs for donations.

20 Colleges With the Biggest Endowments | The Short List: Colleges | U.S. News (usnews.com)

Exactly. “I tried all the food banks and no one could help me” - no, lady, you’re a scammer. You want that formula because you’ve got a regular deal going with Madison in 3B (makes minimum wage, mother of twins), or because you’re going to sell it on Facebook Marketplace. “Our baby just turned one and switched to whole milk, and my husband found this unopened formula canister in the back of the cupboard! Oops, missed that one! Fifteen percent off retail price!”

And even once the US was past the log cabin era, the philosophy that you can get ahead with planning and hard work persisted. It hasn’t and doesn’t work out for everyone, but the twentieth century had a lot of “rags-to-middle-class” stories like my great-grandfather’s. In the early 1900s, he came to the US from Warsaw as a thirteen-year-old kid who didn’t speak English. His father abandoned the family weeks after their arrival. My great-grandfather grew up and worked as a bartender, then bought and ran a boarding house. After that, he became a real estate agent, and he died at 98 with all six of his (surviving) children and their children living comfortable lives in the suburbs. He didn’t finish high school. His children all finished high school, some of his grandchildren went to college, and one of his grandsons became a lawyer. Now most of his great-grandchildren are college graduates. That’s the sort of family history that Americans are proud of.

Exactly. It was designed to prevent the tyranny of the majority over the minority.

Bravo to your grandad, such a great achievement!

My grandad's story is worse, but also similar in some ways. His parents were shot by the russians (during the soviet occupation), his 6 siblings and him were exiled to Siberia. He was the oldest. 12 years old. 2 siblings out of 7 survived, including my grandad.

He grew up in Siberia. He was extremely strong man and worked in forestry, gruelling physical job in freezing conditions, not much machinery-wise there. Managed to save up money even there, doing his main job and stuff on the side. Married my grandma there. During the amnesty, they came back to our own country, bought land, started farming. Later started another business. They prospered. Worked like oxen, but prospered. He couldn't read and write himself (grandma could). Their children, including my dad, went to unis. All three children had business brains, became wealthy.

I honestly don't understand the 'welfare states' such as UK. We're not America, but similar in thinking, in a way. The government is not viewed as a lady bountiful, who will come and give, and support you and do stuff for you. It's viewed more as hindrance, an irritation, a necessary evil which you need to circumnavigate and make your own life.

There is no 'benefit money'. No one owes you anything. An adult person is responsible for themselves and their offspring. You work and support yourself. It's that simple. We do have support for extremely physically ill, a few months-worth of payment if you lost your job and paid enough taxes beforehand, and we do have foodbanks here and there. That's it. No government housing, no handouts. You work, you earn, you make your life. Don't want to work - be homeless and live in the streets. The taxpayer is not responsible for you or your children.

Think we banned slavery rather earlier, if one was being picky. Recognised as illegal in 1770s and outright ban in 1830s v USA 1865.

Canada has the same history of settlement on the prairies, yet our political culture is very different from the states'.

Americans give much more generously to charity and charities provide a lot of the support that the state (taxpayer) provides in European countries. It’s swings and roundabouts.

All slavery in British colonies was banned in 1833. Because Britain operated a light-touch devolved approach to colonial administration, that meant that the colonies all had to agree. They negotiated, so Westminster offered to pay them the market value of every slave they owned. Remember the colonial residents didn’t pay tax to Britain, so essentially the British taxpayer shouldered the entire burden of paying for their freedom through a loan that was only paid off in 2015.

The slave trade was banned by Britain in 1807. As well as policing the Atlantic and Indian oceans to prevent British vessels from illegally transporting slaves, they took it upon themselves to intercept ships flying the flags of other countries (eg the US and Spain) and free those slaves.

Slavery has not been recognised on English soil since at least the Norman Conquest. Slaves are chattels / property. In English jurisprudence there is no recognition of the ability to own a person because everyone is equal before the law and deserving of the same legal rights under the law. This tradition was clarified in the 17th century with the Habeas Corpus Act 1679 on unlawful detention, the Bill of Rights 1689 and several examples of case law in the 18th century when colonists came to Britain with slaves and the judge Lord Mansfield ruled that they were free men the moment they set foot on English soil and could not be compelled to return to the ship from whence they came. Consequently, slave owners didn’t bring slaves here and had to make do with paid servants instead.

Which states though? California?

The details of which states have exactly which abortion rules would be too long to list here but you can google it. Generally the blue states have much easier access to abortion and the red states either make it harder or try to ban it. But no, far more states than just California make it easy and cheap to get an abortion, and many have express laws in place to protect that right.

Thanks. It’s difficult to unpick what comes through the media.

If I could emigrate to the USA I would. Most of my distant relatives emigrated there.

My DCs may move. They see the UK as a failing state.

I think I have an outlook which would be more suited to the American culture. I feel at odds with most Brits/European. Eg if I lived rurally / alone I’d keep a gun in the house. I don’t want abortion to be illegal but I’d rather it was discouraged. I don’t like the big nanny state. I think families & communities should have legal & moral obligations to each other. I prefer the devolved model of state laws rather than the centralised states of Europe. I prefer that schools are secular. There are also fewer private schools. Having awful NHS experiences I’d take the US system in a heartbeat. If there I could have at least sued for negligence, with the NHS I felt a moral obligation not to pursue them for compensation so they have more money to treat others. I love my car so would be happy with the car culture there! What I’d love most is the lower tax!

My older brothers moved to America to study on full scholarship type programmes and have now lived there for almost 40 years. They have done remarkably well and are the embodiment of the American dream, in total I have spent 18 months in America on holiday and enjoyed every minute.

My family were already immigrants from mainland China then to Hong Kong and then the UK. I would say the two generations above me despised anything remotely socialist as lost everything under the Communists, they also suffered under the Japanese as did the entire country. They have done well to shake off their history of comfort women, Unit 731 and war atrocities and become the nation of anime and Hello kitty. My family were Nationalist’s and anti Mao.

America encourages self sufficiency because you have to be, I think the UK had a sweet spot for the welfare state but we are past that.

It’s difficult to unpick what comes through the media.

I'm not sure what or how UK media have reported the status of abortion rights in the US, but it's important to note that the Supreme Court did not outlaw abortion in the US. They decided that abortion rights were not a federally protected right based on the majority's interpretation of the Constitution. That left abortion legislation up to the individual states, which was the state of the law pre-Roe v. Wade.