20 year old thinks we’re mad to think about selling ‘her’ car

[JCB4]

through a loss in the family we ended up with an opportunity to buy another family members car for much cheaper than we could have bought anywhere else, great car, low mileage etc. We paid £3500 and offered it to DD1 (19) as she was keen to take up driving. She had lessons in the passed but didnt stick at it. So she would have some value we said she could contribute £1000 from her savings ( that we have saved). I didn’t actually move the money but she doesn’t know that. Fast forward 4 months and she got sacked from her job ( after 4 weeks ) and hasn’t found another. Lies in bed most days until dinner time and does nothing to help out around the house. We have had to pay insurance, MOT and she hasn’t made any effort to study her theory. Tonight I said the car will have to go if you haven’t got a job by next month as we can’t afford to keep paying for it. She replied yeah I know but atleast il get the money for it! I said no you will get your £1000 back and we will be selling the car for what it’s worth. This was an opportunity for you and you havnt taken it. AIBU here? She’s absolutely fuming saying it’s her car and she should get the money. The car is in my name so it’s technically mine. I’m shocked she would even think that she can just sell it making thousands of profit when she’s made no effort to get a job to pay for it.

It's a tough one. Looking at it from the outside, you offered her the car; I can only assume this was without restrictions. For all intents and purposes, it's her car, regardless of who the V5 is named. You have decided to pay for her insurance, etc, that's on you. You can't take away her gift because you disagree with her choices.

Now, as a parent, with an entitled kid (I have one, don't worry, I'm in no way judging), you've enabled them to lead this lifestyle, paid for their car, paid for their insurance, let's assume you don't charge them board money? They have zero reason to get up, zero reason to put the effort in, because they frankly don't need money to provide for their lifestyle. Bank of Mom and Dad are keeping the heat and lights on.

Not knowing what type of job, etc, they want or are qualified to do is a hard starting point, but this needs to be addressed quickly. Even if it's just a seasonal job to get them back on their feet. Wider, I'd be looking at a career-type job; you're not expecting her to start at the top, but something with actual progression. I bang on about apprenticeships all the time, and for good reason, a lot now have very good starting salaries, 18k+, and you can come out with a degree at the end of it.

She sounds spoilt and immature, which can’t be a shock to you as you raised her so I am not surprised by her viewpoint. However - did you give it to her?

She sounds very entitled though

No, it absolutely isn’t. Being the registered keeper of a vehicle has nothing whatsoever to do with ownership.

Which is just rubbish. As long as the insurer knows who’s the main driver, who’s the owner and who’s the RK, then if they’re happy to provide cover all is good. Of course having a car in your name doesn’t make it legally yours 😂

Yes I am worried that she’s lying around and not working. She does go out with her bf and her friends though and laughs on the phone to her friends and is happy most of the time. I think she knows she’s fed and warm here and can live with out a job And believe me Iv tried with the chores she says yes and then doesn’t do them

I mean this with kindness, but you’re failing her. You need to equip your children with the skills to go out in the world and survive. But she’s under the impression that she doesn’t need to get a job because mum and dad will pay for everything so she can laze about during the day and have fun with her friends and her boyfriend of an evening. She doesn’t even need to save because you’re doing that for her too. God forbid, but what happens to her if something ever happens to you and her DF? Can she run a house? Can she budget? Can she keep the place clean and tidy? Has she got the motivation to get a job to support herself?

Re the chores, what consequences are there for her not doing them?

Except that having the car in your name when she was going to be the primary driver (which was wrong and might have led to the insurance company declaring your insurance invalid if you'd needed to make a claim)....

But DD can't be the primary driver now, because she can't drive. So someone else has to be, unless or until she passes her test.

This whole situation is madness.

Clearly, a jobless young person with no theory test or liscence doesnt need a car - its a massive ongoing cost with no benefit to them right now.

Their parents could help them by offering something towards lessons or insuring them on the parents car and taking them out for a practise, if they wanted to. But telling them they've bought a car for £1k - no actually they havent it still belongs to the parents - is confusing, not helpful for a young person.

First suggest they get a job, then get a liscence, then buy a car with money from the job? Like everyone else does?

I understand why you're frustrated, but I think you might have to suck this one up, because you haven't been honest with her, and she is working from incomplete/incorrect information.

You told her the car was hers - so she presumed this was true.

You told her you'd taken 1k from her savings - but you didn't.

She has obviously been assuming the car belonged to her and its value was hers to do with as she chose, especially since (as far as she knows), she has also paid 1k in savings for it. I agree with the PP who points out that a recently-adult child is still figuring out what is 'theirs'. I remember being quite hurt when I took some books off to university that had been Christmas presents from my mum, and she asked for them back as my younger brother wanted to read them. In my mind, they were mine - in hers, they were family possessions I shouldn't have taken out of the house. I must admit at 19, I also wouldn't have had much sense of the value of a car, and I can imagine a 19 year old honestly thinking their 1k had bought the car.

I'm not clear whether or not you made it explicit that her ownership of the car was contingent on her passing her test (or making a decent effort) and keeping her job? Did you actually go through this with her?

I'm a terrible pedant.you being the registered keeper does not 'technically' make you the owner.

You've either gifted the car or you haven't.

The much bigger problem is that your adult daughter is living with you, not contributing either money or effort to the household and not prioritising the finding of another job. How long are you going to tolerate this?

Yeah but the mum purchased the car, and the dd hasn't yet paid anything towards it. The mum is paying for all costs related to the vehicle. The mum is the owner of the car.

It's a tough one. Looking at it from the outside, you offered her the car; I can only assume this was without restrictions. For all intents and purposes, it's her car, regardless of who the V5 is named. You have decided to pay for her insurance, etc, that's on you. You can't take away her gift because you disagree with her choices.

Except she didn't gift her the car. She asked her to pay £1000 for it, which hasn't been paid. No money has changed hands, op is paying all the costs involved in the car, the op is the legal owner of the car.

In insurance terms, the owner of the car is a) the person who bought it and/or b) pays for the upkeep. The dd might have a claim on it if she had paid for any maintenance costs on the car but she hasn't. The car belongs to the mum.

I wouldn't give her the full grand back either. Good life lesson.

But the daughter doesn't know she hasn't paid for the car. Her mum didn't tell her the truth, so the daughter genuinely thinks she's paid 1k for it. It's not that the daughter hasn't paid it, is it? And it's not clear that the daughter knows it was worth more than that 1k.

I'd start by turning the wifi off and stop paying for her mobile phone. It'll make lying around in bed all day a lot less attractive.
Stop indulging her so much and help her make a plan of action about her next steps.

That really doesn't matter in terms of who legally owns the car. Op paid for it, op pays the upkeep, dd hasn't paid anything for it, op is the owner.

It's a good lesson for the daughter to start paying attention to her finances and actually paying her way, isn't it? She's a grown adult. Why isn't she holding herself more responsible?

But the DD doesn't know this.

You cannot simultaneously not tell someone the truth - and let them think they've paid for something - and be annoyed that they haven't paid.

Yes, admittedly, the daughter seems not to have much handle on her finances. But, since the OP is talking about having not taken this money from her daughter's savings herself, this must be an account the OP has access to, mustn't it? Unless the DD also has access to it (as a joint account?), then she presumably can't check her mum is telling the truth. And why on earth would she expect her mum to lie?

I don't think the problem here is the DD not acting like a grown adult. The problem is the mother is simultaneously treating her DD as a child (witholding details about money; managing the DD's savings for her), and expecting her DD to act like an adult. You can't have it both ways.

She can buy the car from you and pay for it to sit in the driveway

As far as I've read, Mom has not taken the money yet, but it was discussed that the daughter would pay £1k towards the car. Frankly, the daughter, at this age, should have responsibility for her own money; yes, she should always ask for help if needed, but she should be responsible for her own money, that way she would have seen the 1k leaving her bank, it would have had a tangiable effect on her, at the moment she's been gifted a car, all beit paying1k also, but she has not seen that money leave her account, it's had no effect on her, visually or emotionally as it's a completly hidden transaction. So much so, Mom hasn't even moved the money.

Legal owner and V5 are very, very different things, Mom, while I do agree with the sentiment of what she's trying to do, she's really on a sticky wicket.

'We paid £3500 and offered it to DD1 (19) as she was keen to take up driving. She had lessons in the passed but didnt stick at it. So she would have some value we said she could contribute £1000 from her savings'

There are two ways of reading the above, one as a gift it was offered to the daughter, but you could also argue that ownership is shared 70/30 as the daughter contributed £1000. You'd have to know the underlying intent. Gets more tricky ie if they have older children and they have gifted them a car etc you'd have a hard time arguing the offer of the car was not a direct gift.

But are you really going to fall out over a car, the issue is not the car, the issue is the fact you have a 20 year old sat at home who ssemingly sees no problem with living off other people,

That may be a valid argument but it’s still nothing to do with being the registered keeper which is the point I was making.

She's not paying rent and board is she?

Seems more than reasonable.

Doesn't matter if she's depressed. She got sacked and thats on her.

If you don't give her a kick up the arse she'll continue to take the piss for years.

She can pay back dated rent and board then. Or if she doesn't like it she can move out.

The daughter is in zero position to be arguing over this. She sucks up whatever the OP decides precisely because she hasn't sorted her own shit out and is taking the piss.

Arguing over it is tough fucking titty.

Wouldn't you need to give the family member you brought it off some money?

Bit cheeky to get it cheap from family then sell it in and pocket the difference

I absolutely agree she should be paying rent and board. I think it's really sensible for the mum to put some rules in place (in fact it's overdue).

I don't think it's fair to backdate those. Or to say 'arguing is tough titty'. That's bullying. You don't get to bully someone just because they are your adult child. If you want your adult child to learn to live like a normal adult, you have to step up too. The OP fucked up; she wasn't honest with her daughter. She obviously had unspoken, very kind, expectations about how this dishonesty was going to motivate her DD to work hard and pass her test and keep her job ... but that was naive. On the whole, not telling someone the whole story about money isn't a great way to get them to behave like a mature adult.

In the real world, you don't get to backdate rent and board because you've messed up or changed your mind. So nor should the OP.

She ought to sit down with her DD and talk through what is happening with the job situation. If she wants to say the DD ought to pay rent and board she could.

IMO there ought to be a separate conversation about the car.

Why? It was sold with the DD in mind and the OP is the registered keeper. It was sold in full knowledge that it was a good deal. Old keeper has no stake at this stage.

The DD isn't paying for the vehicles upkeep and it's not being used and she's showing no intention of using it - if she was, she'd get up off her arse and the at the very least do her theory. It's cost the op in insurance for fuck all use.

Therefore it needs to go because it's costing the OP money that the DD isn't taking responsibility for.