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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Salary sacrifice to be taxed

560 replies

SomethingInTheAirToday · 08/11/2025 19:02

https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1986914552093745592?s=46

not only are my generation not going to have a state pension or private healthcare, but we also can’t save into our own pensions because we need to fund the current generation.

this makes me so angry

Politics UK (@PolitlcsUK) on X

🚨 NEW: Rachel Reeves will use the Budget to impose a £2k-a-year limit on how much salary can go into a pension before paying National Insurance The move will raise £2bn and hit salary sacrifice schemes [@thetimes]

https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1986914552093745592?s=46

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
222days · 09/11/2025 01:54

222days · 09/11/2025 01:37

Precisely. It won’t be employers that pay for the element that will be charged to them: employees will pay for it as always, via lower salary rises, reduction in any employer pension contributions above the legal minimum level, and lower hiring by businesses so fewer jobs being available.

https://www.abi.org.uk/news/news-articles/2024/10/millions-face-poorer-retirement-if-chancellor-levies-national-insurance-on-pension-contributions-in-budget/
^^
”REBA, an organisation representing nearly 2,000 of Britain’s largest employers, surveyed their members about their likely reaction to a Budget announcement imposing NI on pension contributions made by employers
^^
The survey found that the removal of employer NI relief could have long-term detrimental effects on workers’ pension savings. Three quarters of employers who answered the survey pay contributions greater than the auto-enrolment minimum. Nearly half (42%) of them would reduce these more generous contributions, and two thirds (63%) would be less likely to increase contributions in the future. Many would stick to the minimum required contribution in future. A reduction in investment in other areas of employee benefits, as well as reviewing their future approach, was also mentioned. Only 40% would try to retain current contribution levels despite the increased cost.”

Millions face poorer retirement if Chancellor levies NI on pension contributions in Budget | ABI

Nearly half of employers that pay staff more than the minimum pension will consider reducing their contributions if the Chancellor introduces National Insurance (NI) taxation on employer pension payments.

https://www.abi.org.uk/news/news-articles/2024/10/millions-face-poorer-retirement-if-chancellor-levies-national-insurance-on-pension-contributions-in-budget/

222days · 09/11/2025 02:02

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2025 01:49

Salary sacrifice for income tax is deferring tax (differences in earnings pre and post retirement often mean that the individual does legitimately avoid some income tax if they csn use it to slip back under a threshold). However you don't pay NI once over state retirement age do this bit of taxation gets avoided entirely.

Personally I'd prefer that they merge NI into income tax to close a few loopholes.

How much are you paying into your occupational pension?

No, they should make all pension contributions exempt from NI as well as income tax and they should apply NI to pensioner’s incomes now.

It is absurd for pensioners not to be paying NI on their incomes when supposedly (haha) it is meant to fund the very services of which they are by far the highest users and for which they, as a cohort, have paid nowhere near enough tax to fund over their lifetimes.

It is quite clear that not only does the triple lock need to end as it’s completely unjustifiable at this point, but also the state pension itself needs means-testing.

This is inevitably going to happen and it should be happening immediately. No further taxes should be raised on people of working age or businesses at all because this will further suppress any prospect of economic growth or increased productivity. It would raise £80-90bn per year to means-test the state pension and cause no financial hardship whatsoever which can be redirected to productive areaso of the economy such as education, infrastructure and industrial strategy, which have been starved of necessary investment for decades because of this largesse to pensioners.

In order to manage to impact of the inevitably lower pensions for those who are currently working aged the Government must encourage pension saving, not remove incentives for anybody (employers or employees) to contribute above the legal minimum (which is far too low). The opt out also needs to be removed and minimum contribution levels gradually raised with a similar scheme for the self-employed.

This is utter economic incompetence which will entrench generational unfairness further, further disincentivise prudent saving, reduce economic activity and economic growth, result in reduced employment participation and increase skills shortages (and therefore also increase the need for immigration).

222days · 09/11/2025 02:10

222days · 09/11/2025 01:47

Also if they are going to apply NI to pension contributions via salary sacrifice then they’d damn well better also apply them to the employee contributions into the public sector DB schemes as well and hit all the doctors, nurses and teachers with the same tax charge as everyone else.

To clarify, I mean their employers. So that this NI has to be paid out by health trusts and schools etc and the Government has to admit that since this will make an extremely large hole in their finances that they can’t sustain on their current budgets they can hardly expect private sector organisations to do the same.

ttcat37 · 09/11/2025 02:10

Negroany · 09/11/2025 00:27

Do you have a salary sacrifice scheme then? Most people don't. I don't and didn't with my last two employers either.

Do I have to have a salary sacrifice scheme to think it’s wrong? It’s a stealth tax. It’s backhanded and sneaky and not what I voted for.

222days · 09/11/2025 02:12

Why should health boards and Local Authorities be allowed to make 25-30% contributions to defined benefit schemes on behalf of their employees free of national insurance but private sector organisations who want to contribute to their employees’ pensions be charged national insurance on those? It’s disgusting.

MsSmartShoes · 09/11/2025 02:14

I am very concerned about the financial burden for our children to support a top heavy aging population.

222days · 09/11/2025 02:24

I encourage everyone who is furious about this and how damaging it will be to the economy to write to their MP and tell them it is unacceptable.

NorthXNorthWest · 09/11/2025 02:36

222days · 09/11/2025 02:02

No, they should make all pension contributions exempt from NI as well as income tax and they should apply NI to pensioner’s incomes now.

It is absurd for pensioners not to be paying NI on their incomes when supposedly (haha) it is meant to fund the very services of which they are by far the highest users and for which they, as a cohort, have paid nowhere near enough tax to fund over their lifetimes.

It is quite clear that not only does the triple lock need to end as it’s completely unjustifiable at this point, but also the state pension itself needs means-testing.

This is inevitably going to happen and it should be happening immediately. No further taxes should be raised on people of working age or businesses at all because this will further suppress any prospect of economic growth or increased productivity. It would raise £80-90bn per year to means-test the state pension and cause no financial hardship whatsoever which can be redirected to productive areaso of the economy such as education, infrastructure and industrial strategy, which have been starved of necessary investment for decades because of this largesse to pensioners.

In order to manage to impact of the inevitably lower pensions for those who are currently working aged the Government must encourage pension saving, not remove incentives for anybody (employers or employees) to contribute above the legal minimum (which is far too low). The opt out also needs to be removed and minimum contribution levels gradually raised with a similar scheme for the self-employed.

This is utter economic incompetence which will entrench generational unfairness further, further disincentivise prudent saving, reduce economic activity and economic growth, result in reduced employment participation and increase skills shortages (and therefore also increase the need for immigration).

Edited

A nominal NI should be levied on pensions income. Pensioners don't stop using services once they retire.

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2025 02:37

LabourOfLoathing · 08/11/2025 23:08

Don’t like high taxes? Dont vote Labour.

Who brought in the 62% marginal tax rate?

Teebow · 09/11/2025 02:43

Thank God for the posters on this thread who actually know what salary sacrifice means!

I have seen loads of comments on MN posts where posters use SS to reduce on paper what their salary is, to be able to stay in a lower tax band. Particularly at the higher end with cliff edge tax differences. Smoothing out these cliff edges would be a good thing in my view. As would getting rid of NI altogether and just roll into an income tax, that covers all forms of income.

Some of the ageist, anti pensioner, anger and comments on here are appalling.

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2025 03:25

nomas · 08/11/2025 23:12

And then we’ll still get taxed on our pensions.

So it’s double taxation, tax on salary and then tax on pensions with no salary sacrifice savings.

Fucking Labour.

It's not double taxation. You don't pay NI above state pension age.

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2025 03:42

222days · 09/11/2025 02:02

No, they should make all pension contributions exempt from NI as well as income tax and they should apply NI to pensioner’s incomes now.

It is absurd for pensioners not to be paying NI on their incomes when supposedly (haha) it is meant to fund the very services of which they are by far the highest users and for which they, as a cohort, have paid nowhere near enough tax to fund over their lifetimes.

It is quite clear that not only does the triple lock need to end as it’s completely unjustifiable at this point, but also the state pension itself needs means-testing.

This is inevitably going to happen and it should be happening immediately. No further taxes should be raised on people of working age or businesses at all because this will further suppress any prospect of economic growth or increased productivity. It would raise £80-90bn per year to means-test the state pension and cause no financial hardship whatsoever which can be redirected to productive areaso of the economy such as education, infrastructure and industrial strategy, which have been starved of necessary investment for decades because of this largesse to pensioners.

In order to manage to impact of the inevitably lower pensions for those who are currently working aged the Government must encourage pension saving, not remove incentives for anybody (employers or employees) to contribute above the legal minimum (which is far too low). The opt out also needs to be removed and minimum contribution levels gradually raised with a similar scheme for the self-employed.

This is utter economic incompetence which will entrench generational unfairness further, further disincentivise prudent saving, reduce economic activity and economic growth, result in reduced employment participation and increase skills shortages (and therefore also increase the need for immigration).

Edited

Why did you start with "no" and then basically agree with me?

222days · 09/11/2025 04:16

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2025 03:42

Why did you start with "no" and then basically agree with me?

It appeared that you were using the fact the NI is not currently paid on salary sacrifice or employer contributions to defined benefit pension schemes OR at the point where the pension income is received as an arguments to attempt to suggest that Reeves’ proposed policy is justified or reasonable.

It is not, because:

a) Levying NI on contributions rather than withdrawals/ pension income would yet again hit the younger generation, rather than pensioners, exacerbating generational wealth inequality;

b) Pensioners have paid nowhere near enough tax during their lifetimes as a cohort (a shortfall of £200k per person in real terms) to fund the services and welfare they have extracted from the state. By contrast, if we compare Millenials to the Boomers, Millenials are projected to pay on average £300k more in tax per person in real-terms than they receive in welfare and state services over their lifetimes, and this is before factoring in any further tax rises on those of working age;

c) Reeves’ proposal would lead to even more unfairness between (largely public sector) defined benefit schemes - which are already far more generous - and (largely private sector) defined contribution schemes. As well as DC schemes pushing all risk onto the individual the employer contributions are far lower. To then apply NI to those but NOT to the employer contributions to DB schemes would be completely unacceptable and create yet another distortion in the tax system leading to perverse incentives;

d) state pensions will not continue in their current form because this us mathematically impossible. Changes must be made to this now otherwise, again, it will further exacerbate generational unfairness (with those of working age being further impoverished to fund this unaffordable largesse to current pensioners, and then receiving no such provision themselves). This is always what the current pensioners try to argue for: “impoverish our descendents more but we should still get every advantage, you can’t change it for us”. It’s gone too far now and needs to stop. Therefore, incentivising saving (and generous employer contributions to personal pension savings above the legal minimum) is essential. This policy would achieve the precise opposite;

e) instead, the appropriate solution to resolve this issue of NI not being levied on pension contributions or withdrawals currently for either DB schemes and salary sacrifice DC schemes is quite clearly to levy NI on withdrawals/ pension income with immediate effect, for all pensioners regardless of their type of pension scheme. This will mean that income is taxed in the same way for everyone and current pensioners don’t get to have all of their contributions AND withdrawals free of NI while this is removed from those following them (but only in the private sector, of course!!) and there would be no (further, and even more unfair) discrepancy created between DC and DB schemes. It would also keep the underlying foundational and essential principles of the pension system in tact - which have been substantially undermined already by repeatedly attempts to raid pension savings by successive Governments, damaging trust in the system when the UK really needs people to save and provide for themselves - i.e. the principle that all contributions should be free of NI and income tax for everyone (FWIW I don’t think those in DB schemes should be paying NI on their “notional” employee contributions either, as many schemes have forced them to do in recent years - there should be parity): both employer and employee contributions should be completely tax free for all schemes and taxes should be levied upon withdrawal (the opposite and mirror image of the ISA system). This is simple for people to understand and is fair to all;

f) and as I noted in an earlier post, if implemented Reeves’ policy would cause huge economic problems both now and in the future because it will reduce pension savings; lead to yet more people in skills shortage areas cutting their working hours, retiring early or emigrating; increase the need for immigration (which the public don’t seem keen on); reduce business investment; lower productivity and obliterate any chance of growth: suppress any prospect of rising salaries or productivity or a recovery in the employment market; and discourage saving which would escalate the time bomb already created by the failure to reform the state pension and public sector ponzi schemes and put in place mandatory auto-enrollement at appropriate contribution levels for everyone (including the self-employed) over the last few decades.

Apologies if you were NOT trying to defend her policy. You comment seemed to me to be implying that because NI is not currently levelled on employer contributions to DB schemes or salary sacrifice DC schemes, or on pensioners’ income, therefore it would be acceptable and reasonable for NI be applied to employer contributions (but apparently per Reeves only to DC schemes in the private sector, of course), whereas the appropriate solution is clearly that the exemption from NI on pensioners’ income is removed and all contributions to pensions must be tax free.

This will not only raise far more in tax in real terms over both the long and short term (because the money grows tax free while in the pension scheme therefore there is far more to tax when it becomes taxable during retirement) but it is also necessary and fair that the current pensioners are the ones who make the additional contribution right now given their private pension incomes have not had any NI levelled on them, they are the wealthiest age cohort in society in terms of capital but also income (unheard of at any point in history previously, a direct result if their decimation of the state like a pack of piranhas), they are by far the highest users of state services (consuming almost 50% of public spending, the like of which they never provided to their own parents and grandparents even though there were far fewer of them proportionately to the population), and also because taxing existing pensioners more would have very minimal impact whatsoever on the economy whereas levying further taxes on working aged people or businesses will unequivocally mean that the economic doom loop continues, the UK’s fiscal position deteriorates further and everyone’s living standards continue to go down.

In short: it’s one of the most stupid and economically illiterate ideas I’ve heard her float, and that’s quite an achievement.

222days · 09/11/2025 04:16

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2025 03:25

It's not double taxation. You don't pay NI above state pension age.

And that is the issue that is wrong and should be being addressed.

222days · 09/11/2025 04:17

NorthXNorthWest · 09/11/2025 02:36

A nominal NI should be levied on pensions income. Pensioners don't stop using services once they retire.

Not nominal: the full amount that working aged people pay, and arguably more.

222days · 09/11/2025 04:41

DdraigGoch · 09/11/2025 02:37

Who brought in the 62% marginal tax rate?

Alistair Darling, in 2008.

Dorisbonson · 09/11/2025 05:34

nietzscheanvibe · 08/11/2025 19:17

Surely you will still be able to pay extra into your pension? You simply won't be able to do it as a means of avoiding tax? 🤷

It's not tax avoidance as you pay tax when you receive the pension.

The government used to be keen on people saving for themselves and taking responsibility for their financial welfare in old age. Because this was thought to be good and positive and in the long term it saves the government money they didnt tax saving for pensions.

This government doesn't want people to save for their own future. They are Marxists who want everyone to be reliant on the state. They see anyone who has above average savings as people they can target and they believe any savings people have should be paid to the state.

Starmer is on our record before the election saying that the Labour party supports working people and he believed that if you are able to save money you arent a working person under his previous definition. The treasury is using 46k salary as the point where they start to target people for extra money. If you earn more than that or you have savings then the government is coming for you.

The Labour party don't want anyone to save for the future. They want everyone to be reliant on benefits because they are Marxists.

SixSatellites · 09/11/2025 06:42

nomas · 08/11/2025 23:24

Get people back into work. Millions are at home that can be working.

In what jobs exactly? Every vacancy that comes up where I work is filled quickly, with 100's of applicants missing out, most if not all are switching from another job.
Do you think there are the job vacancies available for long term unemployed? Or employers willing to take them on when they have 100 better applicants to choose from

SixSatellites · 09/11/2025 06:51

freakingscared · 09/11/2025 01:10

I have no idea who has pip easily but my son is severely autistic , in his 20s non verbal needs help with everything , has no notion of danger can’t leave the house unattended even to go to the car etc . His application for pip was extremely hard , he had a in person interview , because I said he could open a yogurt pot they lied and said he could cook for himself , as an example of the lies c there where many . It was a massive stress and far from easy . Who are all this people getting high rate mobility this easily ?

This is similar to my experience, it's a highly stressful process. I doubt the people finding it easy to apply are getting high rate PIP

Middlechild3 · 09/11/2025 07:24

nomas · 09/11/2025 00:33

From The Times:

The one exception to this bad news on pension saving, as is so often the case with this government, is the public sector.

Public sector employees enjoy generous defined benefits schemes, where the bulk of the costs are borne by their employer. Typical employer contribution rates are about 25 per cent of pay, compared with about 6 per cent in the private sector.

Generally, public sector schemes only use salary sacrifice for additional voluntary contributions, where the contributions are optional and tend to be much lower and therefore less likely to breach the proposed £2,000 ceiling.

This is Labour robbing the private sector to pay the public sector. Disgusting.

Defined benefit pensions have largely gone for public sector workers for a few years now, people were switched to lesser schemes. Its probably on the cusp now of the last 40 year long career dbp people retiring. Most won't have the 40 years service to get the 2/3 final salary income. All figures approximate.

Cheeseontoastghost · 09/11/2025 07:28

with those of working age being further impoverished to fund this unaffordable largesse to current pensioners, and then receiving no such provision themselves

Just over 11K PA after working for 40 plus years is " largesse"?

DFO!

cityanalyst678 · 09/11/2025 07:34

SomethingInTheAirToday · 08/11/2025 19:21

It’s not exactly avoiding tax, is it?

FWIW I’m on £24k a year and paying into my occupational pension because I have no other option. My pay that I bring in isn’t enough for me to also pay into a SIPP.

But yes, while the older generations get a triple protected pay rise each year, my generation should just be left to be in absolute ruins. That seems totally fair.

Most people use salary sacrifice to avoid the next tax bracket or to bring their salary down to claim certain benefits like childcare vouchers etc. That’s not relevant to you. Be grateful that your generation have access to pension schemes, many people who are retired now had no company pensions. Work hard to improve your career and maybe think of a second job, to bring in more cash.

notaweddingdress · 09/11/2025 07:55

nietzscheanvibe · 08/11/2025 19:17

Surely you will still be able to pay extra into your pension? You simply won't be able to do it as a means of avoiding tax? 🤷

Edited because I see they are just talking about NI so my comment was not correct.

SpaceRaccoon · 09/11/2025 08:04

SixSatellites · 09/11/2025 06:42

In what jobs exactly? Every vacancy that comes up where I work is filled quickly, with 100's of applicants missing out, most if not all are switching from another job.
Do you think there are the job vacancies available for long term unemployed? Or employers willing to take them on when they have 100 better applicants to choose from

It does make you wonder why we need immigration to the tune of hundreds of thousands annually to fill all thr supposed vacancies then, doesn't it?

PropertyD · 09/11/2025 08:13

Drop the Triple Lock

Review and change the mess that is PIP

Stop allowing mainly young men in small boats from conning us. Have a hit squad of Home Office people review cases and what ever their decision no appeals allowed.

The Danish system seems to be working. Implement it. They won’t because the back benchers will vote it down

Raid and raid again the Turkish barbers, car washes and nail bars. They are in plain sight of us all

Review the public sector guaranteed pension scheme, It is unsustainable. Productivity is going down. Anyone tried to call Birmingham City Council Recently? 1 hour wait.