AIBU to feedback to school about teachers use of glottal stops

[TalomaPaith]

Children at Dcs school are split into different groups for phonics.

Parents are sometimes invited to watch lessons. I observed a lesson by a teacher using glottal stops I.e Let'er instead of letter.

Would IBU to mention this?

@pterodactylpinky I said I code switch. She said I don't know basic English. Double standards much? Do you use glottal stops?

Yes, the assumption from RP speakers seems to be that is is “clearer” as well as “proper”. It’s really not. It’s just what they are used to, and are empowered to believe is “correct”.

me too re: Shaun! Not a pun in Ireland!

You can't be serious!

So…my child learns by 3 that there are different possible pronunciations of the word L E T T E R.

op’s child learns this now, a bit older, due to exposure to someone who pronounces it differently. What’s the issue?
England is full of children who have to learn that in spite of how it sounds, farther has an “r” in it. Ireland is full of children who have to learn that in spite of how it sounds, “letter” has a t in it. What’s the difference?

I have already said I don’t.

@RaraRachael Reading your post, I'd think you say the word farm in a rhotic accent. The 'fahm' transcription is 'fam' (a like in cat).

@MayWelland , but it’s entirely unacceptable to belittle someone and ask them to change how they speak when they are not teaching the child to spell incorrectly, they are just emphasising different parts of a word
this is classist, shaming and seeks to elevate one way of speaking as the right one.

I don't think OP was belittling anyone, or being classist or shaming. She wants a teacher teaching her child to enunciate clearly, which means not using glottal stops. Speaking clearly is important for a teacher.

I was appalled at the poor grammar of one of the teachers at DC's school.
I know the teacher vaguely from schooldays - we have a similar accent and educational background. It was poor grammar, not accent.

I've had a colleague say they struggle to understand my accent, so I make an effort to speak more clearly. I don't get all uppity about it.

If this teacher is the only person in these children’s lives who will model language to them then yes I would complain. But they will be hearing different adults speak all day long. English children don’t get Irish accents from having one Irish teacher. And you don’t often see families who have regional/colloquial accents and one super posh child because their infants teacher was super posh.
I understand why it makes sense to pronounce things properly (especially in the south east where I’m from because we are on an accent spectrum ranging from The Crown to Eastenders) but I’m not sure it actually makes much difference to the outcome of the child’s accent

Shaun the sheep definitely not a pun to me. In fact I've only found this out today.

@YYYDlilah yes I am a rhotic speaker. I used fahm for farm as an example of how the word sounds to me when said by a lot of English people. Cat would have a shorter a sound.

Enunciating clearly does not mean “not using glottal stops” any more than it means “pronouncing the R in farther”.

if a colleague said they couldn’t understand you because you weren’t pronouncing your Rs, would you? No.

glottal stops and non-rhoticism are both simply pronunciation features. Whether the listener finds them “clear” or not is subjective.

@queenmeadhbh , I I have a mild regional accent. You have assumed that my accent is RP.

if a colleague said they couldn’t understand you because you weren’t pronouncing your Rs, would you? No.
Yes. I would. Said colleague has English as a third language and, other than accent, speaks clearly. The issue wasn't with consonants.

glottal stops and non-rhoticism are both simply pronunciation features. Whether the listener finds them “clear” or not is subjective.

Agree with non-rhoticism, strongly disagree about glottal stops.

You’re not accepting that “clear” is subjective. Nor that whether or not you “agree”, a glottal
stop is simply a feature of some accents.

if you are serious that you would start pronouncing Rs in words if someone didn’t understand you, then that is completely unhinged behaviour. Arr you going any farrtherrr up the road? If you’d usually say “ah u going fahthuh” etc?

I (Southern accent) taught children with Northern accents. In phonics I adapted my speech to theirs for learning specific sounds (I found u difficult) but I also talked about how I learned to talk in a different place so I said grass with a longer 'a' sound than they did. They hear different accents on TV so it's not too difficult for them to understand.

@queenmeadhbh , if you are serious that you would start pronouncing Rs in words if someone didn’t understand you, then that is completely unhinged behaviour. Arr you going any farrtherrr up the road? If you’d usually say “ah u going fahthuh” etc?
You are coming across as nuts.

You said that, if a colleague couldn’t understand you, you’d start pronouncing the r’s that you usually don’t, @YYYDlilah.
That does seem a bit over the top.
ETA I suspect you misunderstood the question?

That’s what I thought you meant you would do, if a colleague said that they did not understand you well because you did not pronounce any Rs. Did you not mean that?

Ummmm how are we supposed to pronounce ‘letter’ if not ‘let-uh’?

I am sitting here saying ‘letter’ over and over like a plonker (plonk-uh).

I don't think the OP's example is very clear. Probably should have been "le-uh" if she was emphasising the glottal stop.

By the way some people would pronounce it exactly as it's written so "let-ter" not "let-uh" because there's an r at the end.

As someone with a pronounced Essex accent this threat is so patronising and offensive.

Some accents use a glottal stop instead of the t sound.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=chcjHwWwVxQ

Some accents (rhotic ones) pronounce the r sound at the end.

What's the point of the exercise? Why are parents invited to observe?
I think teachers have enough on without parents observing as well.

@Somethingontheroof , I understood it @Somethingontheroof . It wouldn't be a problem for me to sound the Rs. I'd need to remember to do it consistently, that's all.
I wouldn't see it as being different to something like saying 'isn't it' instead of 'innih'.

As I pp, the comment I got was about vowels not consonants. Not as easy to correct.
I don't think of certain accents being right or wrong.

@queenmeadhbh , I would enunciate more clearly, and was asked would I sound my Rs if asked. It would depend who asked and the context.
The example I was thinking of was something more like saying path with a long a not a short one.

@LittleMG , who's threatening you? (Shuh thah be 'Ouse freh'nin ya?'?)

Sorry @YYYDlilah. I misunderstood so. I’d personally find it very difficult to change my accent like that, but it might be okay for a few words.

You are still not grasping that saying leaving out the “t” in “letter” is “incorrect” but leaving out the “r” in “farther” is “correct” is a value judgement on different accents. Your insistence that it is to do with clarity is not justified.

I’m with you and I think it would sound mocking to even try. If an English person was having issues understanding me so i imitated their accent by doing the long vowels and dropping the Rs etc, it would sound like I was taking the piss.

@queenmeadhbh , let·ter [ˈlɛtə], far[fɑː]
Clear.

UK /ˈfɑː.ðər/ US /ˈfɑːr.ðɚ/
QED.