To think that good managers don’t ask colleagues to “look in my diary and book something?”

[ThisArtfulRobin]

I’ve had a few managers over the years who constantly say, “just look in my diary and book something,” instead of proposing a time or taking initiative. It feels like a small thing but in my experience, the best managers take more responsibility for their own time and don’t push the admin onto others, especially when they’re the ones asking for a meeting!

AIBU to think this is just laziness and a lack of basic leadership skills? Or is it actually standard practice now?

Yabu, this way is far better, the manager is giving far more flexibility to the other person and it’s far less faffy then going back and forward on dates.

The OP probably doesn’t have a very busy calendar and nor does her boss.

where I work it’s really hard to find mutually convenient times less than a week ahead so it’s much easier to check the other person’s diary directly.

Wrong good managers delegate. Which means at times outsourcing admin. I am not paid for admin tasks. I am paid for the ability to influence, and manage a team to deliver on our strategic objectives. That means making decisions, coaching, mentoring and ensuring ownership throughout my teams.

If a meeting content and output is not time sensitive, or a standard deliverable which includes one to ones that needs to be a fixed item then I dont book it.

If its something that needs my input, then my response is my calendar is up to date, put in time that works for you.

Do you know how many meetings I could be asked to book a month? Do you have any idea the time booking each of those meetings would equate to over a year?

It also is giving ownership of the schedule to the person the other person.

I think this is ok. I have a very busy diary and when people want to arrange a meeting with me I do think they should do the leg work because if i offer a lot of different times i then have to keep all those times blocked off in my diary until they get back to me, which might be days later. It gets unmanageable. By asking you to look at the diary it removes the need to keep multiple times blocked off. It's different if i want to arrange the meeting though - then i would offer times.

You’re not being unreasonable at all! It might seem like a small thing, but it really does say a lot about their management style. Good leaders respect other people’s time and take ownership of their own schedule it’s part of being organised and considerate. Constantly asking others to “just check my diary” feels lazy and dismissive, especially when they’re the ones requesting the meeting. It’s not standard practice, it’s just poor management habits dressed up as “being busy.”

I manage a team of 60 people who require 1:1 time with me. My calendar has my entire life in it - hours I'm working, meetings, which site I'm at, travel time blocked out when I'm moving between sites, annual leave, protected admin time, kids nativity, cats vet appointment etc.

I cannot have the back and forth tennis of "when are you free?" with 60 people. By giving them access to my calendar to put something in, it gives then the flexibility and convenience to pick a time around their own lives.

It also gives them some ownership. If something is in my calendar, I'll be there and 99% of the time, so will they, because if they need to make changes, they can do so without having to do the availability tennis again.

It takes each of those 60 people 2 minutes max to find a time in my calendar. Can you imagine how long it'd take me to do that 60x over?

Feedback is they love the autonomy 🤷

Good managers have regular one to ones with their reportees so that additional time doesn't need to be found and their staff feel well supported. It's easier to cancel a regular meeting if there's nothing to discuss than it is to find time. And before anyone says "but I line manage 20 people", there's your problem. Nobody should be directly line managing more than a few people. People management is tough and time consuming.

Ironically, you trying to evidence that your superior is a poor manager with this example is highlighting that you might be a difficult member of the team. It sounds like you struggle with accepting positive criticism and that is much more an issue in the workplace than a manager delegating arranging a meeting.

I am very glad I don’t manage you to be honest, sounds exhausting if you see a slight in everything.

Looks like there are two reasons people typically do this (the voting is clear, it’s super normal practice) - first is if the manager is crazy busy and juggling loads of responsibilities. It would be a waste of their time to faff around looking for time in your diary (and maybe 40 other diaries) when you are paid to be a delegate for things your boss doesn’t have time to do. Totally valid and fair -that’s the whole point of having an organisational structure.

The second category (which I fall into) is treating my team with respect and assuming they all have their own priorities and work life balance responsibilities that means they would appreciate the freedom to manage their own time. I only have a team of 11, and I do - mostly - know their schedules. But I don’t know all their preferences and I give them all a lot of freedom to manage their own time as long as they do their job. I don’t care if someone comes in at 9 or 930 but that would be annoying if I put in a meeting for the wrong slot. My team appreciate my flexibility and are happy to organise their time as they think best.

For what it’s worth, my boss falls into the first category. I put my own meetings in as he is super busy and I almost always need to juggle something in my own schedule to fit in with his but that’s my responsibility as his direct report.

That’s standard, and appreciated, in the team I manage.

Yesterday, for example, a colleague who is due to sit an exam asked me to meet with him to go over a specific topic. We already have a weekly preparation session, but he wants an extra one this week. I said, as I often do, look at my diary and book us in at a time that suits you. He is site based, so does not have as much flexibility as I do.

This arrangement works really well for my team.

I don't have a problem with this, but the last person who asked me to do this then accepted 'tentative' and cancelled on the day so maybe it's a sign they are not committed to the meeting, even if they asked for it.

I do this. If someone wants to discuss something then the onus is on them to find a time to do so. It also helps me manage people putting things in that could just be an email (sometimes they don’t bother with putting in the meeting and just do an email) and also helps me understand if junior staff members know how to use Outlook properly. The number of them in the last 5-10 years who don’t know how to is definitely rising. I follow up if I don’t hear back and then will show them how to use the scheduling assistant function for going forwards.

Think your looking for issues that aren’t there
it’s the most efficient way of doing it

sounds like u resent authority and see this is the same league as though there asking you to make a cup of tea for them

This is fairly standard where I work for anyone not senior enough to have a PA. The person who initiated the meeting puts it in the diary, or if it's a manager, they might ask their report to do it.

But they are on a higher salary, and therefore their time is worth more. They shouldn’t be wasting time on lower order tasks when there are lower paid employees who could do these.

I think the actual act of getting a direct report to do this isn't a sign of a good or a poor manager, but a good manager is doing to to offer flexibility and a poor one to shift responsibility.

Poor managers are usually lazy and palm off their work. Good managers delegate task and do thier own work

If this is on teams then just look in their diary there and then and book it. If it's not on teams then they don't have their diary in front of them.

Such an interesting clash of cultures. Are you Gen Z by any chance OP? You seem to need your manager to demonstrate that they value your time, because to you they are asking a favour, in a way, by asking to meet with you. They are asking for your time, when you'd maybe already planned to prioritise it another way and asking you to do something different, which doesn't respect your autonomy in your work, and gives you an additional task to do.

That feels more like Gen Z than older middle management Millenials or Gen X bosses.

I think there are some places where line managers need to signal that they have a keen interest in their managee's development. I would always do a set-piece approach to booking monthly 121s for instance and do loads of the admin myself as a boss. This shows I take supporting the team to develop seriously. I wouldn't say "Just find a time in my diary and pop in your annual appraisal". That doesn't give it the right gravitas. And I do value their time and development and want them to have a good and productive meeting with me where we can both share feedback. It's on me to make that space work.

However for a project meeting or a quick catch up about emerging developments I would expect to be able to say, effectively, I need you to reprioritise your time to give me some more of your time, please find a slot. I find it a bit laughable and naive (Sorry, I am Gen x!!) that someone needs this level of stroking and validation about the value of their contribution that they would need the booking politely done for them. It isn't actually a request, it's an instruction to have that meeting. Truth is you're less experienced than your manager, literally of less value to the organisation financially; so time bound admin tasks need to be considered with that in mind. Your contribution is valued but you also should be (sort of) grateful for the opportunity to report in, hear about the business and learn something from your manager. They arent meeting you because they are somehow getting a personal kick out of throwing their weight around, but because they need to know something about your work, maybe course correct you, or identify an upcoming issue, or let you know something strategic that will affect you. Rightly, you know less about what they are juggling because they have to weigh up priorities on a bigger canvas than you.

They also have to show up more prepared, calm, in a leadership mindset, and use more skills to manage themselves than you do. It is their prerogative to arrange their day such that it enables them to do this successfully. So you ultimately have a better time at work as they show up better ready to lead you.

I'm afraid I'm with the person who thinks you could just change your attitude as you seem super entitled to be honest and if I were your boss I would think about whether you were ready for more responsibility.

FFS you sound v difficult. « Accountability »! We are talking about booking a meeting.
My manager asks me to book meeting with him, I ask people in my team to book some
with me, nobody cares!

Way more efficient than 1) booking a timeslot and have to change it because the other person is not available, or 2) checking availability and then offering a few timeslots for the other person to choose from.

My manager does this, I think it’s good, so you can plan enough time to get up to speed on the subject first, we usually ask, how urgent is it? If it’s not obvious. Works well, I’d rather that than have him poking about in my calendar.

I think YABU and clearly, 90% on this thread think so too.

I see nothing whatsoever wrong with leaving it up to the employee to pick a time that suits them. It actually feels better to me. Sorry OP but nitpicking such tiny small things makes you sound very unreasonable and quite difficult to work with

Completely normal practice

You'd hate me then. I was brought up to believe that your career development was responsibility. If you want regular manager meetings you schedule them. I will happily turn up and work with you but I am not chasing you around. If I need to speak to you I'll schedule a call or, if I am busy and you have more time, I'll ask you to find a spot in my calendar.

I also believe strongly that my team are adults who can manage their own schedules. I hate micro-managing. I am very conscious that it is important to give credit to those who do the work and not hog it for myself. I care about the team as individuals... but I am not doing the work to get you a promotion, that is for you to do!

This feels like it's not about booking meetings. It's you not liking having a manager directing you to do something.

It's a perfectly reasonable request. They're not passing off anything massive on you. And there is no equality on terms of workload to consider. They've got a shit tonne more work than you, and masses of admin you have no idea about that keeps your projects running.

They have read the situation. The situation is that they are your manager, they don’t know your availability or preferences, and you have a system specifically set up to quickly indicate mutually available times.