To think that good managers don’t ask colleagues to “look in my diary and book something?”

[ThisArtfulRobin]

I’ve had a few managers over the years who constantly say, “just look in my diary and book something,” instead of proposing a time or taking initiative. It feels like a small thing but in my experience, the best managers take more responsibility for their own time and don’t push the admin onto others, especially when they’re the ones asking for a meeting!

AIBU to think this is just laziness and a lack of basic leadership skills? Or is it actually standard practice now?

The context is that a meeting needs to be arranged to suit both your diaries.
What on earth more context could you need?

It depends.

I am a senior manager and I would not expect my team members to have to book their own regular one to one supervision meetings with me for example. That's my responsibility.

Also, I do think it is a bit lazy if a manager initiates a meeting but then just expects everyone else to do the job of organising it. If a manager does that to me I would certainly think ''I am not your PA...''.

I think it is fine if someone asks to meet with me to ask them to find a day and time to meet in my calendar though.

I am quite fastidious with my calendar, I mark important meetings and those where there is some flexibility. I always mark days I’m in a particular location and travel time if it applies and my days on leave. I get frustrated when I look in other peoples calendar to suggest a meeting date/time and they come back and say oh sorry I’m on leave that day, or I have another commitment that’s not in their calendar. So now I sometimes ask my teams to suggest dates/times for meetings rather than trigger that frustration. Although some will always suggest dates times I can’t make, which would be obvious if they had looked in my calendar. The optimum would be for everyone to use their calendar well then I wouldn’t mind arranging the meeting.

Honestly don’t understand why this is an issue at all. Quite usual in my experience - it’s the most efficient way of booking a slot that works for both with minimal fuss all round unless the manager is senior enough to have a PA do it for them.

I think it just comes down to preference and communication style. What feels collaborative to one person can feel like extra admin to another. For me, clarity upfront tends to work best.

I don't mind this at all OP.

What I do dislike is "I'm looking at my calendar and I'm free then. Please contact my PA to book in the meeting." The meeting was just us two and on his request not mine.

He could have just clicked on it and added it in. But instead he decided to involve someone else to make himself look important.

OP, you are being a prig about this. Frankly, you aren’t the “boss” in this situation. You need to get on with it- without making points or acting put out by a reasonable management request.

A good manager, coaches you, gives you opportunities for growth, gives you exposure to decision makers, etc. Taking on admin tasks that you deem fit isn’t really important. You should adjust your attitude- the meeting is for your benefit. Face time with your manager is a good thing for you, and takes your manager’s time.

This all day. it’s basically ‘Look at my diary and pick a free time that suits you and your workload/pattern’.
I don’t have time for the back and forth on Teams…
’Hi egg’
Me: ’Hi how can I help?’
’Did you have a good weekend?’
Me: ‘Yes thanks you?
’Great thanks’
Me: ‘Great’
……[random silence]
’When is good to chat about project x?’
[consults diary selects random free time]
Me: ‘Tuesday at 4pm?’
’Sorry I have something then’
Me: ‘Wednesday at 9?’
’Sorry I don’t work Wednesdays’

AGGGH! I expect the team member to take the time to consult my diary and select a mutually available time rather than a to and fro guessy game so my response is usually ‘my diary is up to date so pick a time that suits you’.

I would I’m afraid judge a team member for not having the critical thinking skills to do that in the first place. It drives me nuts.

I think it’s good management. Not only are you allowing your employee to choose a time that suits them which recognises their time is valuable and they may have lots of things planned, you are also avoiding wasting their time (and your own) on the inevitable and tedious back and forth trying to find a date and time that works.

Yes this would drive me mad now. In fact this whole thread has made me so pleased I'm self employed now as it reminds me too much of working in the public sector 😂
There's something I can't put my finger on in OP's writing style which is a bit bullshit bingo (do people still say that) too, I'm afraid

I always do this…mainly because I want the person to pick a time that’s convenient for them and when they’ve had enough time to prepare rather than me inflicting a time on them. My team seem to prefer it.

if it’s something urgent or something where the timing is important, I will set it up myself at a time that works for whatever the deadline is etc.

I prefer it. Yes they could look in my diary and find a slot but I have preferences about when meetings go. If I don't want it to run over I can book it directly before another meeting, if I want extra time for a chat about something else after I can book the first half of the hour slot they have rather than the second.
Obviously if they put it in I'll accept unless there's a good reason but my work day is better if I can choose when I have meetings and when I have some time to actually get on with some work.

You say that, but you’re still arguing as opposed to accepting YABU.

87% now, by the way.

But what more clarity do you need? “Can you put a time in my diary to discuss the consultation we’re working on” is pretty clear, so is “my diary is up to day so find a time that works for you”. I generally have a very collaborative relationship with my manager, who is very proactive but also has way more plates spinning than I do, putting a time in her diary isn’t something I give a second thought to.

Anyone else wondering what kind of meeting OP’s manager wants with her, given her readiness to die on this completely weird hill?

That wouldn't work in a lot of case though.

Say my manager needs to have 1:1 meetings with 6 different people over the space of a fortnight.

They can say in a Team meeting, or send an e-mail to say 'Can you all please look on the calendar book yourselves an hour when suits you' - which everyone can then do. You can do it immediately if you have more restrictions on when you can meet, or at your leisure if you can be pretty flexible.

However, if the Manager follows your thinking, and says to you "I can offer you Tues at 9am or 2.30 or Thurs at 10.45" they then have to wait for you to come back and choose one, they can't then offer those slots to anyone else. Potentially you are doing a different part of your job and don't reply until the next day, then they would have to start the same procedure all over again.
Or, if they did offer those 3 slots to 3 team members, then you'd be furious if you chose 2.30 on Tues but then found Jane from accounts had replied sooner and taken that slot.

I don't understand why you are still arguing this.
88% of people have voted YABU, and lots of people have explained why.

It is unclear why you have asked AIBU?, when you aren't prepared to accept that you clearly are.

I have 20 meetings this week, most are an hour long, some two, handful are 30 mins. Some need prep time, or follow up. If I’m speaking to a member of my team (who don’t have the same volume of meetings) sometimes it will be much more time efficient for them to look in my diary and book something than for me to try to find time to do it in the small gaps around the meetings - more likely than not I don’t get a chance to think about it until late on Friday afternoon by which time next week is already filling up.

I think this thread is pretty conclusive, the OPs idea of what characteristics matter in a great manager are fairly niche.

Yabu. You want a meeting with me, you book it. I’ll decide if I can accept it.

This is the oddest thing I’ve seen in ages. I work in a massive organisation where people manage to moan about everything. No one has ever moaned about this.

... the fact OP is digging her heels in about this makes me very grateful I am not her manager.

I do this all the time - it gives people the chance to book a meeting when is most convenient. And it stops the back and forth of 'oh I can't do Y, how about X.'

I'm quite glad I don't work with you. You must be so draining to manage.

I think it must be the modern way.
When I was working in a senior capacity, I would expect to book meetings.
If the staff were to have 1to1s or appraisals or something, I'd give a list of times I'd set aside for such meetings and ask staff members to indicate which ones suited them.
If it was something specific, or a staff member wanted to meet to discuss a problem, I would offer a time which fitted in best with my diary...possibly a couple of options. My diary, my management of it. I never had a PA and liked to keep a proper balance of my working time, hence I didn't care for random meetings to be inserted by others.
Each to their own though.

Honestly, the person who is the manager has way more calls on their time and more limited availability. Having done that role for a number of years, one of the best improvements was having admin support to organise meetings and my diary. It’s a complete waste of time for someone in a senior role to have to back and forth with meeting organisation.

So a CEO’s time is well spend arranging her diary appointments?!

You don’t have a busy calendar if this approach works for you.
My team book time if I ask them to. I book time with my bosses.
really not an issue - it’s hierarchy.