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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Anyone like to reconsider what they posted about the train attack on Saturday night?

365 replies

margegunderson · 03/11/2025 10:48

There were (to my mind) some horrific posts claiming that it MUST be a terrorist attack, demanding information on the attacker’s race and motivations NOW, shouting about Starmer censorship and picking fights with anyone suggesting it might not be cut and dried and to wait for more information. Hideously racist as well.
If that was you - any reflections today? What will you do if there’s a next time?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
JHound · 03/11/2025 14:14

MaturingCheeseball · 03/11/2025 14:06

It’s not good enough.

Same as when the police brush off “flashers” . Oh, they haven’t done anything yet …. until they do.

So what would you suggest? All schizophrenia sufferers are detained? Absolutely those with mental health issues can be detained if they are deemed a threat to self and others but if they have not demonstrated either what do you prefer?

We have no idea what Williams said / did / how he behaved prior to Friday. I am sure we will find out more.

Also your comparison to flashers is moronic.

Flashing is a crime. Having a mental illness is not. This is why adult intelligent conversations are needed. Not random hysteria.

JHound · 03/11/2025 14:15

saraclara · 03/11/2025 14:02

There was nothing wrong with people initially (on hearing that two people had been arrested) thinking that it must have been terrorism.

BUT, the views then expressed, and the sheer glee with which the racists took the opportunity to spout the most vile hate speech, was absolutely shocking. Two threads of 1,000 posts each, most of which was racist bile.

MNHQ absolutely should have acted.

That supposes that the mods on last night did not agree with what was being posted.

Genevieva · 03/11/2025 14:16

JHound · 03/11/2025 14:01

But there was no indicator it was a terror attack. So no we are not agreeing.

You clearly didn’t understand what I wrote. I can’t be bothered to re-explain now, so I’ll leave it. Other people clearly have.

MinnieMountain · 03/11/2025 14:17

I live in the area of Peterborough that Williams is from. There’s lots of speculation locally, but terrorism is no longer being mentioned.

JHound · 03/11/2025 14:22

Genevieva · 03/11/2025 14:16

You clearly didn’t understand what I wrote. I can’t be bothered to re-explain now, so I’ll leave it. Other people clearly have.

I got it - you think all acts that terrify should be labelled a terrorist act.

BlackeyedSusan · 03/11/2025 14:22

I didn't post nor did I read any posts, but worried it was another Nottingham. Failure of the mental health system again.

A terrorist attack is equally valid assumption given there have been several already in this mode.

As is thinking it might be an asylum seeker as a few criminal asylum seekers have been in the news recently.

I going to say that people are not going to.assume something novel, like a football fan, bit seems I have been proved wrong.

phantomofthepopera · 03/11/2025 14:23

There are still loads of racists online saying that it’s a conspiracy and the police have released a fake name. Some people just see what they want to see and won’t be persuaded otherwise, no matter what evidence is presented. They are livid that it wasn’t a terror attack.

Genevieva · 03/11/2025 14:27

JHound · 03/11/2025 14:22

I got it - you think all acts that terrify should be labelled a terrorist act.

No. I think that when someone doesn’t fall neatly into a ‘terrorist’ box but shows all the signs of being capable of a terrorist-style of attack (albeit for different reasons) Prevent shouldn’t simply close the book and say ‘not our problem’ without passing them to someone whose problem it is to deal with them.

MaturingCheeseball · 03/11/2025 14:28

@JHound “moronic” Nice one. Well, moron I may be but, like most of the population, I don’t particularly relish the thought of people wandering around with knives or sexual deviants loitering about because we have to be all swing your pants nice and kind and respectful.

We know people don’t take their medication. We know people behave in anti-social ways. We know they scare the public. No, I don’t feel like bending over backwards for those who end up taking their medication lives of innocent people.

MaturingCheeseball · 03/11/2025 14:29

That should have been taking the lives of… blimmin’ predictive text…

ParmaVioletTea · 03/11/2025 14:37

I was shocked by the overt, explicit racism.

"They might be British citizens, but they're not one of us" was pretty standard on one thread I read. I'm pretty immune to racism, but that sort of thinking really shocked me.

The attacker's race, ethnicity, or skin colour were immaterial. Possibly his sex was more relevant than anything else. From the little that's been able to be reported - on the Today programme on Radio 4 this morning for example, it sounded as though the perpetrator had a severe mental illness and was in a psychotic state. I thought it sounded like a case of lack of appropriate treatment and care more than anything else.

We'll hear at the trial, I assume.

margegunderson · 03/11/2025 14:38

Cleikumstovies · 03/11/2025 13:46

People are anxious, concerned and fearful. That has been going on for ages - fear a soviet attack, then just as that drifts away it's all quaeda , 9/11, 7/7 and reading about other islamo fascist attacks. Then we have COVID - will we all die? Well it was not quite as bad as all that but... Oh I forgot the credit crunchity munchity. Then Daesh in the middle east, north Africa and sympathisers, Ukraine was and cost of living crisis.

Ohand what people see every night as small boats arrived. Yes, there are far more legal migrants coming in, yes legal.

Unemployment, fears that grooming gangs were not dealt with for a perceived fear of upsetting minorities. Councils taking down some flags but afraid to upset other communities.

Added to that a political party fanning the flames and offering a (dog whistle) solution.

The true guilty parties - the global elites, the Uber wealthy and parts of an establishment who are happy to see the "little people" eat one another as long as they continue to thrive.

I’m older than you - we had the Cold War, being warned how to protect ourselves in case of a nuclear blast (take a door off its hinges and hide under in case you’re wondering), IRA bombs, Black Wednesday, heavy industry like mining disappearing overnight thanks to Thatcher and so on. But we weren’t as divided and keen to believe conspiracy theories as now. The internet isn’t doing us many favours and yes I’d agree there were one or two bots or bad actors stirring those threads.

OP posts:
Feeda · 03/11/2025 14:38

I think investment in knife arches at every train station would be a good thing The amount of knife crime in my city week on week is horrendous and manned knife arches would be a bloody good start to get rid of some of the knives

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 03/11/2025 14:45

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Allseeingallknowing · 03/11/2025 14:46

Feeda · 03/11/2025 14:38

I think investment in knife arches at every train station would be a good thing The amount of knife crime in my city week on week is horrendous and manned knife arches would be a bloody good start to get rid of some of the knives

Impractical- there would not be enough staff to man them.

localnotail · 03/11/2025 15:01

Feeda · 03/11/2025 14:38

I think investment in knife arches at every train station would be a good thing The amount of knife crime in my city week on week is horrendous and manned knife arches would be a bloody good start to get rid of some of the knives

Imagine somewhere like peak time Waterloo where everyone have to go through the security. It would be an absolute nightmare. Simply impossible.

LittleBowSheep · 03/11/2025 15:07

I'd like to hear an explanation from MNHQ as to why they didn't pull that thread on Saturday night. It seems a lot of people had reported some posters and yet the vile comments were allowed to continue on the night. I get that it was late on a Saturday evening but personally I don't think that is a good enough reason.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 03/11/2025 15:27

LittleBowSheep · 03/11/2025 15:07

I'd like to hear an explanation from MNHQ as to why they didn't pull that thread on Saturday night. It seems a lot of people had reported some posters and yet the vile comments were allowed to continue on the night. I get that it was late on a Saturday evening but personally I don't think that is a good enough reason.

I started reading it on Saturday night and was convinced it would be gone by morning. The fact it remained and (to the best of my knowledge) is still up is shocking.

EilonwyWithRedGoldHair · 03/11/2025 15:46

IdaGlossop · 03/11/2025 13:02

The head teacher of Rudakabana's school has said she was asked by social workers when he transferred to her school to modify her notes about him. She had said she had never met a pupil so preoccupied with violence. The social workers were unhappy about a black boy being stereotyped. This sounds like the same dynamic as the one at work in rape gangs, and an unintended consequence of multiculturalism.

It's an attempt at reducing racial discrimination. It's a fact that a black person's behaviour is more likely to be interpreted as aggressive than if they were white. Research shows this.

I don't see it the same as the rape gangs.

TooBigForMyBoots · 03/11/2025 16:18

YANBU @margegunderson, the racism was off the scale!😱

I'm hoping some of those posters will reflect, realise that they have become racist and roll back.🙏 But I know some won't.🤷‍♀️

Some are aggressively pushing a racist agenda on Mnet to sow fear and division. MNHQ needs take a proper look at those posters and take action.

ilovesooty · 03/11/2025 16:23

KimberleyClark · 03/11/2025 13:24

I don’t think anyone ever described the actions of Michael Ryan, Thomas Hamilton.or Raul Moat as terrorism. Then again, they were white.

Or Derek Bird.

DespiteHigh · 03/11/2025 16:48

Bagsintheboot · 03/11/2025 11:06

I actually think MNHQ really needs to get a handle on this and make sure their talk guidelines against misinformation, racism / general hate speech and enforced. Additionally the police asked for people not to speculate and yet MNHQ let multiple threads of speculation and the aforementioned misinformation etc stand.

I really don't know why this isn't being addressed. Was it because it's a weekend and it happened late at night, meaning less moderation? With a site as big as MN, it's really not acceptable to have such light-touch moderation and to rely solely on user reports.

There are still, today, a few posters going on about Islamic takeovers and power plots to get into govt and frankly it's disgraceful that MN haven't got hold of this.

Absolutely.

Reported posts which contravene MN guidelines stand under ‘we prefer open discussion’.

No you don't MN, you prefer the clicks and advertising revenue.

I fear poor moderation will drive away the more genuine posters, leaving MN with a site full of misinformation. Noone left to challenge or provide facts.

Dangerous in the world we live in.

Major De- registration might make MN think again.

AnyoneWhoHasAHeart · 03/11/2025 16:50

This isn’t straightforward though, on either side.

On the one hand it absolutely isn’t unreasonable to suggest that it was likely terrorism when two men are arrested and it is initially reported that counter terrorist police are involved. That of course was later confirmed not to be the case, but we live in a 24 hour communication age, where people have access to, and communicate via various social media channels where, whether we like it or not, news spreads. And so people will talk between news broadcasts.

The Racist element is aside from that, but the fact that there have been multiple incidents over the years all of which have involved perpetrators of different races is going to mean people will automatically conclude that it was someone from a different race. Once it was confirmed not to be a racist incident any reference to race, immigration etc should have ceased. At that point it was irrelevant.

However, it is also unreasonable to automatically jumpy to the conclusion that this must be down to inadequate mental health provision and essentially turn this man into a victim.

No. No-one who goes round stabbing people is mentally normal. But that’s not the same as mentally ill.

only the trial will tell the facts, and as things currently stand, he hasn’t been detained under the mental health act, he has been arrested, and charged with attempted murder.

Also the police are now looking into whether he may have been involved in an attack on a boy the day before, which, given everyone else is adding their own speculations, just points to him being a horrible violent person.

We need to stop automatically attributing race here or in any such crimes.

But we also need to stop just assuming it must be mental health reasons and essentially giving the man an out.

DespiteHigh · 03/11/2025 16:54

LittleBowSheep · 03/11/2025 15:07

I'd like to hear an explanation from MNHQ as to why they didn't pull that thread on Saturday night. It seems a lot of people had reported some posters and yet the vile comments were allowed to continue on the night. I get that it was late on a Saturday evening but personally I don't think that is a good enough reason.

This is the explanation I was given. Rubbish. Spreading misinformation is against the guidelines, yet the thread stood.

Thanks for getting in touch. For now, we will be letting the thread stand - the story is such a prominent news item that people will inevitably want to discuss it. As ever, we will delete posts which break our Talk Guidelines We'll be keeping an eye on the thread, but please get back in touch if you see any specific posts which you'd like us to check out and we'll be happy to take a look.

Makes me want to report every single post that contains misinformation, to the point where MN have to act as the email box will be so full.

There isn't even anyone else to complain to, just MN themselves.

MinnieMountain · 03/11/2025 17:08

The BBC are now reporting what I heard locally that he’s also the man who waved a knife around in a barbers in Peterborough on Friday.

I get your point @AnyoneWhoHasAHeart , but in this case it does sound like it is mental health issues.

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