Ban male nursery workers?

[BluntPlumHam]

I came across this article which has left me quite sick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze665j2y51o.amp

Said 18 year old was newly qualified nursery worker who’d SA’d and raped 3 year olds.

Nurseries are desperate for workers and I have noticed through friends and families that there is now an increasing number of men entering the profession.

Men traditionally haven’t performed this role and I often find it difficult to envisage what attracts a male to this profession to begin with when we have so many instances of men who run away from childcare responsibilities.

Although men entering the profession can be a positive outcome the other very concerning outcome and on the potential rise is this.

Sex offenders will target this profession no doubt as it gives them easy access to children.

men are significantly more likely than women to sexually assault children.
Official statistics consistently show that the vast majority of individuals convicted of, or reported for, child sexual abuse (CSA) are male. For example:

• In the year ending March 2019, the Crime Survey for England and Wales found that 92% of adults who reported experiencing CSA said the perpetrator was male only.
• In 2022/23, almost 99% of individuals convicted of child sexual abuse offences in the UK were men.
• Reports to the Australian Royal Commission by victims and survivors of institutional abuse revealed that 93.9% of the abuse was perpetrated by an adult man.

So just a blanket ban on them all together ?

It isn’t my personal opinion but I do think we ought to have measures in place to make nurseries more secure and safer. This thread is to invite discussion.

Also, kudos to those brave little 3 year olds who had the courage to tell their parents because they’ve saved a lot of potential victims in the future. My thoughts and wishes for a life time of healing for them and theirs.

then after that she will say ban non-muslim workers

The meaning of the word stereotype is a fixed, oversimplified or inaccurate idea about a group. It is statistical fact that men abuse vastly more than women.

The stereotype that led to women not working was something like ‘women are too stupid or hormonal’ or ‘only capable’ of tearing children. That is an inaccurate idea.

Using statistical fact to inform decision making has nothing to do with stereotypes. I’m not necessarily saying ban but we need to talk about actual risks - your comment is nonsensical unfortunately.

I think on a statistical level sexual abuse in a nursery environment is rare. I appreciate there isn’t good evidence on this in part because young children can’t always report abuse. But most nurseries do have robust safeguarding procedures and it’s going to be difficult for an abuser to find an area where they are guaranteed privacy. Abusing a child in a nursery is very high risk for the abuser. Since there are very few male nursery workers anyway, the chances of a child being abused by a male nursery worker have to be tiny and could probably be reduced further by better staffing etc. In general, children are at far higher risk at home than at nursery and probably at far higher risk of neglect or physical abuse or just accident at nursery than sexual abuse.

Banning men from working with young children sends a message that men aren’t safe to work with children and would imo have a much wider impact than just for nursery staffing. It would likely put men off interacting with young children in general and from careers like teaching in primary schools (where some intimate care might still be required). There is huge stigma in being suspected of being a paedophile. We can’t expect men to ultimately become good hands-on fathers if we have previously given them the message that they are a risk to young children and blocked them from experience of looking after children.

I want my sons to see both men and women in caring roles and, since I’m a single parent, I think they particularly benefit from having male carers / role models.

And, legally, banning people with a certain characteristic from particular jobs based on a statistical risk sets a dangerous precedent. What if we find that black police officers are more likely to be involved in violent incidents or female doctors are more likely to be involved in medical malpractice etc (no idea if either of these is true). Do we ban everyone with a particular characteristic of working in those roles?

Aren’t men statistically more likely to commit criminal offences than women? All types of offences. Maybe we just ban men from the public sphere.

YABU.

But that is an opinion based on a logic so flawed that it ulimately supposes every single man on the planet is a child abuser. I hate to break it to you, but you're not thinking straight 🙄

I imagine you felt the same re: women after Vanessa George?

No?

Because demanding the exorcism of an entire gender from a workforce based on the actions of one sick individual is wrong?

Now look how stupid you sound.

Our boys need strong caring role models, nursery workers and teachers provide this.

Surely ‘most’ murders are committed by women in a nursery setting is because vast majority of the workers are women? I wonder what would happen to that statistic if there continues to be an increase in male recruitment?

I’m afraid it still doesn’t change the fact that men commit sexual crimes against children at an alarming rate compared to women.

I won’t address the personal attack. Discussions like these don’t need to descend to that. You know nothing about the background of anyone on here to make those remarks. The purpose of this thread is to invite discussion and the ‘ban’ element is to peak interest. Did you never write an essay at school that posed a question?

That would be great! Joke, before everyone goes nuts. But imagine how safe women would feel in female only spaces where no chance of male criminality. Worth discussing what we do about the problems men as a group (yes, I know not all men, but as a statistical category) have with hurting and abusing people.

Yes castrating all male babies would be such a proportionate and reasonable response of course. Totally equivalent to what the OP is actually discussing.

I never understand the argument that just because safeguarding will never be perfect and we can’t stop abuse at home that we shouldn’t try to improve it and try to make things safer for children or any other vulnerable group. A very determined burglar/rapist/murderer could smash open a window or door but that doesn’t mean that there’s no point in locking your doors at night.

And yes I do think that changes should be made generally so that children are protected in nurseries from all forms of abuse but there is also no doubt that men are a much higher risk to children in terms of sexual abuse and that should be considered too, especially in light of the horrendous abuse case in Melbourne childcare centres where over two thousand children had to be tested for STDs because of an abusive male daycare worker.

There are more than enough unpleasant women in these environments too.

But then I’d never, ever trust anyone else to look after my child as well as I would. I don’t think babies and children going to nursery at a young age and being cared for by strangers is a social good that should be encouraged. So not a situation I ever would have been in, or a risk I would have taken with my children.

YABU. I have a very good male friend who is a nursery nurse. I have worked in schools with male nursery nurses. It is not an easy profession to get into. I know how hard my friend worked to get his qualifications.

Why do so many people seem to insist that all males are predators of some kind?

They’d probably need strict supervision at home as well. Just to be on the safe side.

Yes. We need much more discussion and recognition of the problems of men as a group.

I do assume every man is a potential abuser around my kids, so I safeguard them appropriately rather than simply trust and hope they are not.

That's me thinking perfectly straight.

It is interesting how many people still remember Vanessa George’s name(I do too) because of how comparatively rare it is for a woman to sexually abuse children. I’m not sure that I could begin to name how many men have done so in childcare settings because of the sheer number world wide.

I haven’t seen a single post that says all men are predators. Maybe you could link some examples?

I chose not to send my children to a nursery that had male nursery workers (which coincidentally was also in Staines) because I wasn't comfortable with them changing nappies. My choice.

We'd also have to ban men from teaching. And from being football coaches. Or any other profession where they routinely come into contact with children.

This is obviously a horrific case, but banning men from working in nurseries isn't proportionate to the risk.

Having a twat and being one are two very different things.
Personally, judging half the population based on their sex is similar to judging two thirds of the population based on their skin colour.

This guy was a white male. It makes as much sense to ban all male nursery workers as it does to ban all white ones.

Sorry Alice, I'm sick of that saying.

Protecting children comes first.

They aren’t all predators obviously but a considerable number are. Sexual abuse in a childcare setting is not some rare phenomenon and there have been some recent high profile cases. Men, like it or not, are far more highly to commit sexual abuse than women and men who are attracted to minors are also more likely to take up employment in childcare than your average man.

Thanks for your insight on this and the article. The stats are concerning which is a shame because as you said it results in male workers being treated with suspicion.

I understand your point but children in nurseries are more vulnerable than primary aged teaching due to their age, verbal capacity and many being unable to advocate or get help for themselves in any way. I’m not for a ban but your examples don’t reflect the same level of risk

I have a relative a lovely young man, fully trained nursery nurse. He’s very good at his job . I would trust him 100%

I think we need to stop saying all men are perverts . We need good men to model behaviour to boys .

Are you saying the statistics are wrong?