Ban male nursery workers?

[BluntPlumHam]

I came across this article which has left me quite sick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze665j2y51o.amp

Said 18 year old was newly qualified nursery worker who’d SA’d and raped 3 year olds.

Nurseries are desperate for workers and I have noticed through friends and families that there is now an increasing number of men entering the profession.

Men traditionally haven’t performed this role and I often find it difficult to envisage what attracts a male to this profession to begin with when we have so many instances of men who run away from childcare responsibilities.

Although men entering the profession can be a positive outcome the other very concerning outcome and on the potential rise is this.

Sex offenders will target this profession no doubt as it gives them easy access to children.

men are significantly more likely than women to sexually assault children.
Official statistics consistently show that the vast majority of individuals convicted of, or reported for, child sexual abuse (CSA) are male. For example:

• In the year ending March 2019, the Crime Survey for England and Wales found that 92% of adults who reported experiencing CSA said the perpetrator was male only.
• In 2022/23, almost 99% of individuals convicted of child sexual abuse offences in the UK were men.
• Reports to the Australian Royal Commission by victims and survivors of institutional abuse revealed that 93.9% of the abuse was perpetrated by an adult man.

So just a blanket ban on them all together ?

It isn’t my personal opinion but I do think we ought to have measures in place to make nurseries more secure and safer. This thread is to invite discussion.

Also, kudos to those brave little 3 year olds who had the courage to tell their parents because they’ve saved a lot of potential victims in the future. My thoughts and wishes for a life time of healing for them and theirs.

read that back to yourself

Most sexual abuse is committed by men (note that’s not saying women don’t abuse, but stats matter when assessing risk), children in nursery settings need a high level of intimate care, the very youngest will be non-verbal and the majority not of an age where they can necessarily understand, or have the frame of reference, for what is normal behaviour by adults. I think one on one intimate care shouldn't be allowed, i.e. staff are not alone doing nappy changes etc (that will mean more staff and higher fees), but wouldn’t object to a ban on males being involved in intimate care full stop.

Then why post in AIBU?!

My eldest child didn’t see his father during his early years and didn’t have a male role model outside of his nursery until he started primary school. His nursery key worker was a lovely young man who the children all adores because of his kindness and vibrant personality. My son has said he would love to go into Eyfs teaching as his key worker was so integral to his early years and he wants to be that for other children who don’t have dads at home or worse, useless ones.
Unfortunately I think men choosing to work with children in any capacity will always be looked at with suspicion and even though I’d never discourage him away from a job he would love, I hope people don’t automatically assume he’s chosen that position to access children.
It’s such a shame we have to treat men with suspicion in these roles, but this is what happens when we have more peadophiles in society than we ever realised. If the statistics of how many men given would SA a child given the opportunity with the guarantee that they’d never be caught is to be believed, it’s not a surprise we aren’t comfortable with men intimately caring for our children.

https://www.independent.co.uk/world/child-sex-abuse-men-australia-b2450369.html

I know this study isn’t uk based but it’s not a stretch to think we’d yield similar results.

Hopefully some of the increase is due to men being more involved in childcare and the role being less gendered,
. We really need to see caring is not the sole responsibility of women.

Disgusting that this isn’t a life in prison offence. How on earth was he alone with any child in a bathroom long enough to harm them? My child’s preschool have bathrooms with low doors and the main door is always open and staff never enter cubicles alone with a child. There’s also no men working in the building which I’m fine with. There will be at school next year but again a male staff member would never be alone in a bathroom with any child due to policy.

Do you allow your DH and your father/father in law to change your DC’s nappy?

Id not think twice of a male primary teacher but would side eye a male nursery worker tbh. Very different expectations and responsibilities.

My FILS have never changed any of my children’s nappies nor have expressed a want to as my children have never always had a grandmother there or us there. And my father of my children isn’t a male unfamiliar to me. A male nursery worker would be. And it is extremely unusual for a man to go into intimidate care of babies. None of our male friends have ever changed a friends child’s nappy they only ever do personal care for their own children.

There's possibly an argument for restricting male employment in situations dealing with older vulnerable young women and girls, like the pp who mentioned a disabled teenager.

But in nurseries I would say not, simply because only a tiny proportion of men have the paedophile tendencies to even want to abuse such infants, let alone then be willing to carry it out, and then be able to get away with it.

Abuse can happen. Most of it happens where the perpetrator is known to the victim. What are we going to do, stop children from having any contact with men whatsoever? Ban fathers from be SAHDs?

Obviously we do what we can to reduce the possibility to as low as practically possible, and safeguarding procedures need to be as robust as possible. But stopping an entire half of society from engaging in caring roles, that the vast majority of them will be good at and committed to, and which we need to see them in to challenge gender stereotypes, just seems like terrible overkill to address a crime that should be preventable by other means.

There is no getting away from the fact that the vast majority of sexual abuse is perpetrated by men. That is just a fact. Of course women abuse too, no one is denying this, but we know the statistics. I don't know why 'oh but women abuse too' gets banded about so much. We know this.

YANBU

Ban all men from working in nurseries ? Do we ban all teachers too ? Doctors ? Carers ?

what really needs to be looked at here - I haven’t read the article by the way - is how this was possible ? How and why was he alone with children enough to be able to do this ?

I work in education and I have worked in holiday clubs , childcare etc in the past whilst training / studying and the general rule is that you are NEVER alone with a child. If a child needs assistance in the toilet , with changing etc then there are two of you there and - If possible , in terms of dignity - a door is open. I teach in a setting for Sen students who do sometimes need assistance from their support workers for personal care or just assistance in general - I am in a senior position, a DSL and me and all staff went through a rigorous screening but still I will be present whilst a support worker is assisting a student and the other staff are made aware of what we are doing .

Something is wrong here and banning all men won’t help. There are more men who are kind , caring and good at the job than there are men who are predators and we cannot forget that just because it’s men we see in the news more often, women do this too. A lot of women have been found to have abused children in their care , women rape men, women abuse men - it’s just not reported as much.

we need to look at how a provision designed to keep children safe allowed this man to be able to SA children in his care .

In an ideal world, I would want both male and females in the profession. In this world, I mostly agree OP.

And this is why Iv steered my son away from early years and towards primary teaching. The prejudice. He loves working with under 5, teaching them, coaches a sport for under 6s. Discoverered he enjoyed it after doing health and social care qualification at school.

I think we need more positive male role models in schools and early years settings. Women are just as capable of abusing children. Instead we need stricter vetting and safeguarding policies to make sure things like this can’t happen. I’m not a fan of the new guidance that states changing spaces should be out of sight.

My ex-DH changed our child’s nappy. My DF never needed to and we were no contact with FIL. Men who I don’t know and have no frame of reference for never changed my child’s nappy.

Your question is rather like the ‘why do women care about men in women’s toilets, your toilet at home is gender neutral’ gotcha, isn’t it?

Ridiculous comparison, to the point it makes you look like you're missing some essential I.Q points.

There is no way to completely mitigate risk, but comparing a father of member of the family (known, trusted people), to effectively a total stranger is not a fair one.

It reminds me of the poorly thought-out, gotcha arguments that trans activists make when trying to justify taking away women's public single sex spaces, which is that women have no right to be unhappy about men using women's spaces just because they share facilities with men at home.

I'm pretty sure that child sexual abuse is committed by members of the family or extended family, but that doesn't mean we need to throw caution to the wind regarding unknown men.

This is just statistically completely untrue, sadly. Mean perpetrate sexual abuse on a scale vastly higher than women. Women are not ‘just as capable’ of sexual abuse - while there are some examples it’s not a level playing ground. And no vetting procedures would identify abusers who’ve never come to the attention of authorities before.

@littleburn Literally just what I just posted. They all think it's a brilliant gotcha moment but it makes them look thick at best, and disingenuous at worst.

There is a brilliant read which I’m going to struggle to find now but it talks about a psychologist who worked in a prison with child sex offenders. She described them to be the most charming and respectful individuals to work with but then looked at what they were convicted for which entailed some of the most heinous offences you could think of.

I just saw! Great minds @EarthSight 😁

Do you have a Son/Sons OP? A husband? Father? Brother?

How would you like someone assuming they are potential child abusers that because they have a penis?

Not all men are sex offenders.

Not all sex offenders are men.