Ban male nursery workers?

[BluntPlumHam]

I came across this article which has left me quite sick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze665j2y51o.amp

Said 18 year old was newly qualified nursery worker who’d SA’d and raped 3 year olds.

Nurseries are desperate for workers and I have noticed through friends and families that there is now an increasing number of men entering the profession.

Men traditionally haven’t performed this role and I often find it difficult to envisage what attracts a male to this profession to begin with when we have so many instances of men who run away from childcare responsibilities.

Although men entering the profession can be a positive outcome the other very concerning outcome and on the potential rise is this.

Sex offenders will target this profession no doubt as it gives them easy access to children.

men are significantly more likely than women to sexually assault children.
Official statistics consistently show that the vast majority of individuals convicted of, or reported for, child sexual abuse (CSA) are male. For example:

• In the year ending March 2019, the Crime Survey for England and Wales found that 92% of adults who reported experiencing CSA said the perpetrator was male only.
• In 2022/23, almost 99% of individuals convicted of child sexual abuse offences in the UK were men.
• Reports to the Australian Royal Commission by victims and survivors of institutional abuse revealed that 93.9% of the abuse was perpetrated by an adult man.

So just a blanket ban on them all together ?

It isn’t my personal opinion but I do think we ought to have measures in place to make nurseries more secure and safer. This thread is to invite discussion.

Also, kudos to those brave little 3 year olds who had the courage to tell their parents because they’ve saved a lot of potential victims in the future. My thoughts and wishes for a life time of healing for them and theirs.

Surely the safety of children should take priority over the employment rights of men?

I agree, but it's a matter of convincing the government.

You think that tone will work when lobbying the politicians?

Good luck with that.

You seem to be out to alienate allies with ridiculous paranoid claims.

I'll leave you to your irrational games...

Truth be told, I'm not offended, I'm amused - you sound like a badly-acted Dalek. 😂

But this really is supposed to be a thread discussing the issues, whereas you're contributing a series of "black and white" statements accusing other women of being child rapists waving red flags, if we suggest that governments are unlikely to actually ban male nursery workers.

Who knows, it may be possible to realistically lobby for such an outcome. I'm certainly open to all suggestions, but a "no debate" approach is obviously doomed to fail.

Ta-ta then.

Yep

No, in fact we need to encourage more men into childcare and teaching. As others have said, we also need to make it impossible for abuse to happen at settings.

It's horrendous isn't it? This latest case, for a start. And an, afaics, an unresolvable dilemma about employing men with nonverbal care of anyone at any age.

I think it's pretty obvious now from cases in care homes, psychiatric hospitals and nurseries that there should be CCTV coverage everywhere in these places and also that nobody (because yes some women do it too) should ever provide care for a non verbal person alone, they should always work in pairs with at least one woman in the pair.

I don't have a clue how that could be paid for but banning men from working in child care isn't going to happen, so the campaign needs to be something achievable.

Not if they're considered to be a proportionate means of delivering a legitimate aim. Preventing child SA is clearly a legitimate aim. Its whether excluding men from the role would be proportionate that would be up for debate.
My view is that it would, because the safeguarding benefit outweighs the cost to a small number of men who don't get to work in this one job. However, mens rights and wishes are typically given very high priority, over and above other concerns, so it would probably be rejected as disproportionate.
I'd be interested in a campaign to argue otherwise.

I think it would be difficult to prove that banning all males from this job was "proportionate". Whilst the vast majority of sex offenders are male, the vast majority of male people are not sex offenders and it is disproportionate to ban them from a particular role indiscriminately when some will be very good at it. The vast majority of poisoners are female, would you therefore ban all females feom working in kitchen and catering jobs? Of course not.

When proper safeguarding procedures are in place no one - neither male nor female - is above suspicion and no adult - most especially if they are the most trustworthy person there - should be in a position where abuse could take place unwitnessed. So doors are open, there are multiple people about, you aren't ever enclosed 1:1 with a child. If all adults normalise such safeguarding practices then any would-be offender who tries to be alone with a child is obvious and easy to spot. I don't know the details of this specific case but I know there are many organisations that are too underfunded and understaffed for this gold standard to be feasible in their normal practices.

We do have precedent for banning all males from certain roles and spaces as a proportionate means to achieve a legitimate aim around safety and comfort though. It involves a careful cost/benefit analysis and the key to achieving it here would be to show the benefit was sufficient as to be necessary and outweighed the discrimination against men.
There is no argument that will convince me that the rights of some men to do one job outweigh the risks to children in this context. I think closing the role to men is achievable and has minimal negative impact. Unlike banning women from kitchens, which would decimate the catering and hospitality industries, and which isnt necessary to address a known harm. Unless I've somehow missed the regular reports of women poisoning resturant customers.

I don't think there should be an outright ban but robust supervision in place.

From several high-profile cases, there are women abusing DC physically and sexually in nurseries too.

No-one should be in a position where they can abuse DC and if that means everyone is supervised then that's what needs to happen.

I saw that yesterday. Another weirdo freak.
Apparsntely he was wearing trousers with holes in deliberately!!! 🤢

I don’t think banning male nursery workers is the answer, but safeguarding needs to be much stronger, including no lone working.

Staff should always be paired and never left alone with a child. While women are statistically less likely to commit sexual abuse, I’ve seen enough cases of physical abuse in nurseries to know that major changes in safeguarding are necessary.

I suppose all of this also depends on how much nurseries are willing to invest in keeping their children safe. For some it may be easier to avoid employing men rather than implement costly safe practices.

I cant recall the exact percentage, but its over 90% of childcare workers are women.

Just wondering as I hear about so many parents of daughters saying they only want female nursery staff changing their children's nappies, taking them to the toilet etc. But I never hear of parents who have sons wanting a male carer. Is that because there are hardly any male nursery staff so everyone knows they are unlikely to get male nursery staff caring for their dc.

It's because men don't trust other men with the intimate care of their dc either.

It's because people have a false sense of security in thinking a woman won't abuse their child.

When many do, in nurseries and outside.

Sexual abuse is overwhelmingly committed by men.

There's no amount of "but women...." will change that fact.