Ban male nursery workers?

[BluntPlumHam]

I came across this article which has left me quite sick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze665j2y51o.amp

Said 18 year old was newly qualified nursery worker who’d SA’d and raped 3 year olds.

Nurseries are desperate for workers and I have noticed through friends and families that there is now an increasing number of men entering the profession.

Men traditionally haven’t performed this role and I often find it difficult to envisage what attracts a male to this profession to begin with when we have so many instances of men who run away from childcare responsibilities.

Although men entering the profession can be a positive outcome the other very concerning outcome and on the potential rise is this.

Sex offenders will target this profession no doubt as it gives them easy access to children.

men are significantly more likely than women to sexually assault children.
Official statistics consistently show that the vast majority of individuals convicted of, or reported for, child sexual abuse (CSA) are male. For example:

• In the year ending March 2019, the Crime Survey for England and Wales found that 92% of adults who reported experiencing CSA said the perpetrator was male only.
• In 2022/23, almost 99% of individuals convicted of child sexual abuse offences in the UK were men.
• Reports to the Australian Royal Commission by victims and survivors of institutional abuse revealed that 93.9% of the abuse was perpetrated by an adult man.

So just a blanket ban on them all together ?

It isn’t my personal opinion but I do think we ought to have measures in place to make nurseries more secure and safer. This thread is to invite discussion.

Also, kudos to those brave little 3 year olds who had the courage to tell their parents because they’ve saved a lot of potential victims in the future. My thoughts and wishes for a life time of healing for them and theirs.

Hmm..I don't think it's automatically creepy. But it could easily be dangerous if the Head were...

My mother says that she'd find a man giving his own kids a bath creepy. I used to think that was extreme but now I'm beginning to agree with her, male predators all around it seems...😢

I don't think it's automatically means the Head was bad. Not all men who do that kind of stuff are grooming children to hurt them.

But it could definitely be potentially dangerous. I wouldn't be happy myself.

You'd have thought that the good men who wanted to do it might be prepared to put their wishes aside if by doing so they prevented children being assaulted by the bad men.
Frankly I'd be very suspicious of any man bleating about his human rights to do precisely what he wanted to do when faced with an option that kept bad men away from children.

That's already what happens.

Most decent men would never put themselves in a position where there could be even a hint that they were interested in children for sexual reasons.

I personally would not trust any man who wanted to look after someone else's babies or toddlers in a nursery, regardless of how that may be perceived.

Children's safety is the only thing that should matter.
There are lots of other jobs men can do just as there are lots of male-dominated jobs where physical strength is an asset and most women self-exclude.

Why is not having intimate access to non verbal children a 'punishment' to you?

Children are more important than the male ego.

At my children's nursery there is an excellent male member of staff. Parents trust him and the children all are so happy. It is important to not just have female nursery staff. He is a great role model for the children. If someone wants to harm children whether that is male or female they will find a way even with all the safeguarding in place.

If someone wants to harm children whether that is male or female they will find a way even with all the safeguarding in place

If a man wants to sexually abuse a child you would be as well give him access to yours because he will find a way to do it to someone's child anyway?

WTF

Yes, there is. It can be hacked into quite easily. There isn’t a way of preventing it from happening because there is no system that can’t be infiltrated. This happened in my SIL’s nursery.

Parents trusted Joshua Dale Brown who was working in nurseries from 2017 until he was caught this year. Now, every baby he was in contact with over the past 8 years has to be tested for STDs - nearly 1200 in total.

Millions of people trusted Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris for decades yet this vast sea of trust did not protect the innocent children they assaulted. Appearing to be pleasant and nice is no guarantee that the person is safe to have around children. Unrelated men are statistically 50 times more likely to sexually assault a child than an unrelated woman. How could anyone put their precious child at risk if this can be vastly reduced simply by not employing males in nurseries?

Also, it's not important for babies and toddlers in a nursery to have male carers. Most have fathers, granddads, uncles etc who can provide all the male role models they need once they're at home.

Babies and toddlers are naturally more wary of men they do not know than women. I remember the first time my son met one of his male cousins at his grandmother's house. My son was crawling across the dining room floor when his 5 year old cousin arrived in the door. He instinctively sensed danger and immediately went into reverse and crawled backwards to me and safety. I never saw him do that with a female ever.

The first time I dropped him off at the creche when he was only 6 months old, a very pretty young woman held out her arms to take him and he just smiled and willingly went to her without so much as a backward glance at me - why? He felt safe with her. I felt a pang in my heart at his reaction. However, he did cry the following day(s) as he knew he wasn't going to see me for hours.

I run several school age childcare services- with my husband. And we employ other men too. We're still something like 90% female in spite of that.

Most of the men we employed over the years had a similar journey to DH - they became dads themselves and, just like it often does for women, it changed their perspective and introduced them to an area of work they'd never considered. Of the non-dads (generally younger), they often have a similar story to the younger women with either a family background in childcare or big families with lots of younger siblings, cousins etc.

In school age childcare having men in the setting is genuinely advantageous in our experience. They tend to have a different style and approach to play which is both hard to explain but immediately obvious! With the older age group intimate care is less of a feature - but when it is it's not unusual for boys to ask for a male staff member if one is available.

We have cctv whenever possible, but not in toilets for privacy reasons.

What an utterly ridiculous thing to say. If we go down the route of female only environments it makes it easier for female abusers and pushes the male abusers into areas where they may not be so closely monitored

Utterly ridiculous. Anyone should be able to follow a career or vocation which they thoroughly commit themselves to and enjoy. 41 years working with children and enjoyed every minute. I can’t think of any job that women are told they shouldn’t be allowed to do.

You’ve just completely contradicted yourself

Well said

I wouldn’t have a problem with that but as one poster said it can be hacked. Also how far do we take it. Paediatric wards? Treatment rooms,? scouts groups? The list is endless. It all boils down to rigorous supervision and recruitment procedures but sadly there will always be some men AND women who slip through. I notice that everyone debating on here has made no mention of the high profile case of a female nursery worker who badly abused six babies and was convicted last month. Double standards

Yeah. Let’s just pretend it’s only men eh

Buzz off. Your priorities are clear : male ego over kids' safety.

How does it make it easier for female abusers?

Don’t be ridiculous. You don’t like it because I just proved that women are as capable of abuse. It’s people like you who make it easier for female abusers to go unnoticed

My brother is very caring and has worked part time in a nursery. That being said, you gotta go with the statistics - we are looking at nurseries for our baby now and one of the key things I've been comparing is whether there are zero male staff caring for the year group she's about to go into!

Completely politically incorrect and unfair on men, but when it comes to my own child's safety I'd prefer to do everything I can to reduce the odds of something as utterly devastating as CSA from happening (speaking as a CSA survivor myself, which was surprise surprise perpetrated by a man)

Exactly we don't say lets have male only nurses because of Lucy Letby-the most prolific child killer of modern times.

Exactly. And Beverly Allit and the female nursery worker who was recently convicted of abusing 21 babies. Thank you for understanding because I’ve been subjected to some vile abuse on this site over the last 2 days

@Adimack sorry for that-not surprised, female crimes get swept under the carpet and they usually manage to find a man to blame for what a woman did!

I’ve been trying to say this. All these people having a go at me haven’t stopped to think. If we ban men from childcare then the few abusers who infiltrate it will just find somewhere else to go. And if we had female only environments then the people who are crying out for this would create a false sense of security thus making it easier for female abusers. I don’t know why they are not getting the this. 41 years working and CARING for children and I’ve got idiots telling me vile stuff and judging me. I have over 200 letters and cards from staff and parents congratulating me on the wonderful way I’ve cared for and educated children. These bigots annoy me so I’ll just have to try to ignore their warped views

I’ve been trying to say this. All these people having a go at me haven’t stopped to think. If we ban men from childcare and education then the abusers just find somewhere else to go. And if we had female only environments then that would just create a fall sense of security and make it easier for female abusers. I don’t know why they are not getting this. 41 years of educating and CARING for children and I’ve got idiots saying vile stuff to me and judging me. I have over 200 letters and cards from mostly female parents and colleagues congratulating me on how well I did for the children. I also single parented my son who was in a special school and I know he felt more comfortable with male staff. These bigots annoy me but I’ll just annoy their warped minds and views