Ban male nursery workers?

[BluntPlumHam]

I came across this article which has left me quite sick.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze665j2y51o.amp

Said 18 year old was newly qualified nursery worker who’d SA’d and raped 3 year olds.

Nurseries are desperate for workers and I have noticed through friends and families that there is now an increasing number of men entering the profession.

Men traditionally haven’t performed this role and I often find it difficult to envisage what attracts a male to this profession to begin with when we have so many instances of men who run away from childcare responsibilities.

Although men entering the profession can be a positive outcome the other very concerning outcome and on the potential rise is this.

Sex offenders will target this profession no doubt as it gives them easy access to children.

men are significantly more likely than women to sexually assault children.
Official statistics consistently show that the vast majority of individuals convicted of, or reported for, child sexual abuse (CSA) are male. For example:

• In the year ending March 2019, the Crime Survey for England and Wales found that 92% of adults who reported experiencing CSA said the perpetrator was male only.
• In 2022/23, almost 99% of individuals convicted of child sexual abuse offences in the UK were men.
• Reports to the Australian Royal Commission by victims and survivors of institutional abuse revealed that 93.9% of the abuse was perpetrated by an adult man.

So just a blanket ban on them all together ?

It isn’t my personal opinion but I do think we ought to have measures in place to make nurseries more secure and safer. This thread is to invite discussion.

Also, kudos to those brave little 3 year olds who had the courage to tell their parents because they’ve saved a lot of potential victims in the future. My thoughts and wishes for a life time of healing for them and theirs.

I’m a mother of a boy and a girl - and I focus strongly on bringing my son up to be a loving, caring, responsible young man who would never hurt a woman or a man and has great values. That is made harder by people like you spouting this bullshit - being an aggressive man hater like you is no better than being an aggressive woman hater like Andrew Tate. You are both part of the problem.

Yes, very difficult for nurseries to manage without an extra member of staff available.
Do they have two staff sitting with sleeping children as well?

Look, I’m guessing you have your own personal reasons why you feel so strongly about this- that’s understandable if so, let’s agree to disagree.

What I will say is that in nurseries and schools generally, being short-staffed leads to many horrendous crimes against children taking place. Staff should not be changing nappies/toileting/generally out of sight with a child. It is best practice to work in pairs as a minimum for such tasks. Check out OFSTED stats generally on the increase in accidents and injuries to children in nurseries- all comes back to not enough staff and inadequate safeguarding provision. We should all be extremely concerned about it.

She was talking about teachers, GPs and fathers, not random men in the supermarket. But if you are saying that someone is a risk just by being male then males shouldn't be doing any of those jobs should they?

honestly not sure how it works with babies, mine were three when they went and not napping. They do have a nap room for the older children, nobody sits in it though - there are video monitors which link to the toddler room and to the admin office, in case the toddlers staff don't hear the kids wake up.

I guess two people are in there getting them to sleep though, then two people are in the bathroom changing nappies, another two people are with the children who are awake. And then staff are on lunch breaks as well.
Lots of additional staff are needed to maintain those kind of policies while unfortunately most nurseries run on minimum staffing.

We mostly avoid unrelated men being alone with our children though don't we?
Especially if undressing our children.

I hardly think working in a nursery setting counts as 'alone'

Well the male nursery worker from the article must have somehow ended up alone with all those babies to sexually abuse them. Unless you’re saying others saw it and said nothing which again speaks volumes about nurseries.

Nursery workers are often alone with children though.

I don’t generally leave my kids alone at the GO for example, do you? As for fathers, hopefully you get to know your partner a little bit better than a nursery worker that you see for 5 minutes at pick up time.

The female nursery workers convicted of harming/killing babies recently were also often alone too, Roksana Lecka and Kate Roughley.

Yes, maybe. As I said mine have never napped there so I don't know what the process is, I just remember seeing the nap room on the tour. I do know they also often go for a walk then leave them sleeping in buggies in an enclosed yard with a camera.

Children are more likely to be SA by someone in their family.

Because, if your position is that a man is a danger to nursery age children, then logically, that same man must be a danger to all nursery aged children, in any setting.

So, fathers, doctors, teachers, literally any man, anywhere, must present the same level of risk.

Is that logical enough for you?

HTH🙄

Sadly no logic there. We don’t leave nursery age children alone with doctors. Fathers - one hopes one has married and chosen a father who’d not abuse our children. Of course it happens, men are men, however it’s not the same as a random man left alone with small children for hours. Teachers start at sgec4, not the same. HTH.

I find it mad that a qualified doctor with years of experience would ask for a chaperone to assist in an intimate exam, but a 18 year old with minimum qualifications is allowed to be on their own with toddlers.

Risk is about access though - a nursery worker is higher risk than a doctor or a neighbour because they have greater access and opportunity.

Do you know what the actual stats are for that? I know that 90% of abusers are known to the child, but what's the breakdown between family and non family?

The fact is, sending children who cannot clearly communicate what is happening to them, to spend their days amongst strangers, will always be a risk. A fairly small risk, but it has always been there and always will be. I think cameras in nurseries are a good thing but not infallible. If parents can possibly keep children out of nursery, at least until they are 3 or older, then that is the very best thing you can do for them. Sadly, its not always possible.

No, because they can’t abuse unless given the opportunity to do so. I don’t leave my children alone with strangers (or anyone really apart from close family like their dad or grandma). And before anyone says anything, no my husband is not a peadophile.

Are we banning male carers as well?

I'm not angry at all, thanks for asking though.
I'm saying that women abuse kids and gave an example. Why should men be banned? As a lot of people have pointed out to you in obvious terms.
Why didn't you put up an aibu vote then if you were so sure peeps would agree, which a fair few haven't.

And good people know that safeguarding is not banning men from certain professions! I say that as someone with Level 3 Safeguarding training. My DH certainly took it personally when he was told he shouldn’t be changing or bathing our children. My DB certainly took it personally when he was told that he must be a pervert because he was a Scout Leader - in fact he got so fed up with the “jokes” and insinuations that he gave it up. Telling someone you don’t trust them because they were born with a penis is not safeguarding!

YABU! We need more men to enter into teaching and especially to early years. It is important for children to see both men and women teaching them and role modelling behaviour.
There are strict professional levels that need to be reached to work in childcare and the nursery should ensure that nobody should be left alone with children without their DBS having been completed.