Thread 19: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5422393-thread-18-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. Over four months we have done amazingly well together for 18 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge and cider be with you.

"I'll fight anyone who says I'll make it to Christmas 2021!"

It's difficult to say which way things will go, after the documentary a whole lot more people will become aware of this scandal. It's true @WellSurely Doris was extremely popular, maybe with people being able to review, good or bad, it's harder to keep a fraud running? though Salray has had a good run. I don't know how OWH can be published by Raynor Winn and be marketed and reviewed? What will the strap line be, we had unflinchingly honest, what would this book be defined as? I think as @Uricon2 says every professional review would probably mention TSP scandal. It would be interesting @Vroomfondleswaistcoat if OWH was published, the reviews from the likes of us would be outrageous :)

Agreed @Vroomfondleswaistcoat . I also doubt that the back and inside covers of OWH will have the rave reviews from the same sources and will instead rely on past reviews of the earlier books. I went to look at her website and also followed the link to IG. I was interested to see on her website that the film posters of TSP and pictures of the actors appear to be getting used in place of the real people, a lot. This just confirms what I’ve thought for the last five months that Ray and Moth are fictional. It’s so easy for Walker to coast along further with her deceit all the time that the unsuspecting public are separating the version of events from the reality by seeing the film characters instead. They will subliminally believe that the film is the reality. I don’t know if I’m making sense but I know myself what I’m trying to say.. Basically, she’s still hiding and hiding now behind Gillian Anderson’s performance. Gillian Anderson’s performance must fill her with glee. So the “about” page is there, the rebuttal and a page about TSP.
“Just days after Raynor learns that Moth, her husband of 32 years, is terminally ill, their home is taken away and they lose their livelihood. With nothing left and little time, they make the brave and impulsive decision to walk the 630 miles of the sea-swept South West Coast Path, from Somerset to Dorset, via Devon and Cornwall.”
This is still mostly nonsense and it’s the same on Penguin.
I saw the path picture on the IG page. It looks like it was taken in summer.

I wonder, @HatStickBoots whether Sal has had a bit of a makeover during their time in purdah. She could well have had an extreme haircut, maybe even some work done to her face in the time out of the public eye, and now not be quite so immediately recognisable. It would explain why she is hiding behind GA, because she wants to be able to move incognito among the mortals. Of course, Tim is the drawback there, but he can stay hidden anyway because he's so poorly that the poor soul can't be expected to go out and about now, can he?

Oh, and just to add, these days nobody under the age of about fifty has ever heard of Doris Stokes, that is really why I said that those in the know mock her. In a few years nobody at all would know who she was, even though she has books published, she will just be regarded as another eccentric old lady.

These days it's all Derren Brown, and much better for it.

We will keep you informed about the documentary@Aussiebornandbred, I'm sure some of us will take subscriptions and watch. I did wonder if you were in Australia :)

@HatStickBoots @Vroomfondleswaistcoat really interesting points about the Salray brand morphing into/hiding behind the irreproachable GA and JI. Bit like those trailers for the early Bond films that said "Sean Connery IS James Bond". I can see that in some minds, they will think Salray and have a mental picture of GA.

On a related subject, I saw pictures of an unshaven Martin Kemp in a bandana on I'm a Celeb and I honestly thought for a nanosecond it was Timoth! Sorry Martin.

Hiding behind GA is going to be very limited though. Sal can only use that for the TSP stuff that's already out - using publicity photos from TSP film to have anything whatsoever to do with books based elsewhere is only going to make her look silly.

Agree @Vroomfondleswaistcoat and I can't see her even attempting the usual publicity for the forthcoming book (if it does forthcome) because we all know the questions that would be asked, as the people doing the interviews etc will not be what remnant of a loving readership she has left. Maybe she will astound us all and try a rehabiliative mea culpa but I can't see it myself.

This is why I am thinking that the book will slide out without too much fanfare, but there will be carefully placed 'publicity interviews' (which will basically be Sal telling us how much she has suffered, how mean everyone has been, how they have completely got the wrong end of the stick, how she has paid back every penny (carefully avoiding mentioning WHY she needed to pay anything back at all). They will be curated monologues. There will be no awkward questions; there may be no questions at all, other than those like 'So, Sal, tell us what the new book is about', or 'what themes are uppermost in OWH?'

These will be produced in house by PRH so won't run the risk of any intrusive or searching questions (which would just not be printed). There will be no public appearances or book signings until PRH and Sal have judged the mood (so probably a year or so later and not widely advertised) if they happen at all.

Absolutely hurray for Derren Brown, but I was taken aback to find DS’s books are still available via Amazon, and that there are lots of glowing reviews posted very recently on GoodReads nearly forty years after her death . It just struck me as the kind of situation where a certain kind of reader remains unaware of debunking, or simply sees it as background noise that doesn’t get in the way of their enjoyment of a book that makes them feel good. And while I’m sure you’re right about the age profile of DS readers, they’re still people internet-savvy enough to have GoodReads accounts.

I agree too that this is the most obvious way for PRH to handle the launch of OWH and attendant publicity. But I think it’s not impossible she’d do the occasional, carefully-curated public event at a festival. Interviewers at these kinds of events are pre-agreed, very soft-touch, and not investigative journalists. It’s routine to ask an author if there are questions she doesn’t want to be asked, for instance. Possibly deliberately arrange for the conversation to overrun so there’s no time to have audience questions.

I predict that OWH will have a preface which will be incredibly emotional and manipulative and speaking about the pain and anguish of the preceding year. The message will continue to be one of strength due to standing up and putting face into the wind etc because that is the epitome of bravery in this situation.
I also think that PRH will be business as usual. She might do an interview in which she talks about having paid her dues, isn’t guilty of anything and is a credible author with prizes and nominations under her belt. The positives will be pushed forward, the negatives swept under a mat, pitchfork wielding locals pitied.

Is there anything that the Sky docudrama could reveal that would finish SW's career as an author and make it impossible for PRH to publish anything further that she writes?

But any public appearances, however well curated, are going to be open to 'questions from the audience', otherwise there's no point to being a public appearance, you could just do an interview one on one. And if it's open to the public, EVEN IF the public are asked to submit their questions for approval in advance (in which case many alarm bells usually start ringing), there's nothing to stop someone asking an 'off the card' question. And I don't think Sal could cope at all with a 'so, what DID you spend the stolen money on?' type of question. She can only operate within a carefully prepared script.

Would any of us be at all surprised if Chloe H has managed to unearth something erm very, very questionable, especially in the follow up to her Observer article? I don't think we would, but prhaps it will be more of a question of further explanation and addition to what we already know.

I think either way, this documentary is the very last thing RayMoth need, if they are to preserve any credibility even with the dwindling faithful. I could be utterly wrong of course, but sufficient time has passed for it not to be seen as an onslaught on the poor 'beleaguered' pair (#BeKind, let's not) and I hope it will be spread far and wide.

Thanks for sharing these incidents - this is the feedback that has been coming over to me.

I think there are firm signs their goose has cooked. Sal obviously wanted to move on more strongly to the gigs and the wellness and the exposure doesn't enhance her presence in those endeavours.

The increasing presence of her books in charity shops reminds me of The Da Vinci Code once that fad was over - and it had been huge with no scandal.

Our latest drive-by scolder, whom we all ignored, said they were frauds. Their point to us was just move on but that it is true. The first one I've seen like that!

It’s not a docudrama is it 😰

Honestly, only fans go to these events. And the point of them being an author ‘in conversation with’ someone is that the interviewer is asking the questions which would formerly have been asked by an audience. I think the risk is pretty small.

There is nothing to stop the local contrarian showing up, true, but on the other hand, SW, solo and with Gigspanner, did events in Wales on a number of occasions, knowing that the Hemmingses and a number of other people knew the extent to which TSP was a misleading fiction (in terms of the reasons for the homelessness at least) and the fear of someone showing up to heckle didn’t seem to bother her to the extent of staying out of Wales…

I've done a few of these events - you're right that they are 'fan only' when they are linked solely to one book, but many are done as part of a wider event - either by the publisher (where several of their authors appear) or in a literary festival. And they tend to invite 'questions from the audience' at the end.

I don't think many would turn up to a 'OWH-only' gig and I think even PRH would recognise this as a foolish move, but if they want to raise the profile then they might try to slip Sal in, even as a 'surprise guest' to a Penguin Author do. Even without opening up for audience questions (which would cause everyone present to wonder what they were trying to hide), the authors tend to do a mingle and book signing afterwards and that is where the ambush could well happen.

Their only hope is really to have her never appear in public again and let the book run on its own merits with little to no author input. And I think Sal likes being famous too much for that. If OWH is met with fan approval and rave reviews, is she really going to be able to stay out of the limelight?

I tend to imagine that, unless PRH are contractually obliged to match previous books in terms of amounts of money pumped into publicity (which they might well be), they will spend less and weigh that up against potentially smaller sales of OWH. If they’ve decided they definitely won’t buy another book from her after OWH, they probably are no longer thinking about the longterm future of the RW brand (except insofar as it involves her back catalogue which they own rights to). Her future is her agent’s job.

I think you're right. I think they are 'stuck' with OWH when they would probably rather not be, it was included in the advance so they are going to have to publish it because she's done her part and turned it in to them (I don't believe any bs about her 'still working on it', they've got it in its entirety and although perhaps an editor has got her to tweak bits, I can't imagine they're putting a lot of editor-time investment into it). So they'll bring it out.

Maybe adverts in press and the kind of magazine where the faithful might lurk? People's Friend (I hate to sound dismissive of PF, when it's just about the last refuge for the short story writer, but it does play to a certain demographic). I really don't think she's going to be trotted out at all. But a low profile isn't going to suit her AT ALL when she has a new book out!

Like @LetsBeSensible I didn't think it was a docudrama, I don't know that anything the documentary reveals would finish SW as an author, it's just what kind of author does she want to be? I think Raynor Winn beloved author has left the building forever, she can continue with whatever name she likes, including Raynor Winn, some people will continue to be fans I'm sure, but she will never recapture what she had, maybe she will reinvent herself, but as @Vroomfondleswaistcoat has said many times Raynor Winn was a phenomenon in litary terms, she had the kind of success that very rarely happens, is hard to replicate and I think impossible for her to recapture with a place in people's hearts.

You are right, my understanding is it's a documentary, not a docudrama. A docudrama would involve dramatised re-enactments and I would anticipate this being a straight-up journalistic style TV documentary (akin to Panorama) with interviews, given our Chloe's investigation.

I can't help but wonder if OWH was intended to be a significant tie-in to this proposition...making the Coast to Coast path official. The timing seems uncanny given OWH was meant to publish last month.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxnz2x0pqzo

Maybe it'll be renamed as the Winnright Way!

Remember BBC Film was one of the funders of the TSP film.