Thread 19: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film?

[DisappointedReader]

The Observer's original exposé: The real Salt Path: how a blockbuster book and film were ...

First thread: To feel disappointed after reading this in The Observer about the author and her husband from The Salt Path book and film? | Mumsnet

Links to threads 2-16, the other 20 Observer articles and videos to date, Raynor Winn/Sally Walker's statement, our timeline and sources can all be accessed in the OP and first few posts of Thread 17: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5403285-thread-17-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

Thread 18: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5422393-thread-18-to-feel-disappointed-after-reading-this-in-the-observer-about-the-author-and-her-husband-from-the-salt-path-book-and-film?

New posters joining us in the genuine spirit of our civil discourse are welcome. It would be helpful to get the background from at least some of the Observer exposé items before posting.
To all - Please be extremely cautious when it comes to naming or implicating people and addresses not in the public eye or with no direct connection to the story, and around the understandable health speculations, especially where details are unclear or still emerging. Remember, even Hollywood rabbits attract the odd flea. Please do not engage with drive-by scolders who seem to have their own agenda and seek to derail. Avoid @'ing and quoting them as - from experience - this will only encourage them back to the threads. Over four months we have done amazingly well together for 18 very interesting, very serious and very silly threads so far. I can't be here as much as I'd like so all help with keeping our discussion walking along in our usual reasonable and respectful fashion is very welcome.

Keep to the path. No saltiness. May the fudge and cider be with you.

"I'll fight anyone who says I'll make it to Christmas 2021!"

(I should say I know nothing about the law. I'm just going by my own contracts, a difficult relationship with a past publisher, and stuff from the Society of Authors.)

Yes, pure fiction.

I don't blame the PSPA for dropping them as ambassadors or whatever, presumably because it risked bringing their organisation into disrepute. Was it the PSPA whose statement after the Observer story emphasises that any fundraising the Walkers did was via third-party sites and that all money raised had been received in full?

I suppose I'd see that as slightly different to causing harm to an individual reader -- it's more about reputation, credibility and the repercussions of being associated with a high-profile embezzler whose husband may in fact not have the condition she'd monetised in her books and which the charity raises awareness of.

But OWH was the second book in a two book deal, wasn't it? So hard to force SW to repay the advance when they have already published the first book of the two books. If she's working to a normal advance model then she will have got half of the advance already for Landlines. The rest will come in three sections, part when she signed, part when she delivered OWH ms, and it will only be the final part in abeyance, the part she would get upon publication. And as such she can make a case that she's fulfilled her part of the contract - the publisher withdrawing from publication of the final novel is outwith her control - I suspect this is the defence she would use.

The fact that they would withdraw because of her persistent lies is a different matter...

A few posts back, you wondered why Raymoth didn't declare as bankrupt@HumoursofBandon, we speculated about this a while ago, if they were bankrupt they couldn't be company directors. They wouldn't necessarily have to declare their bankruptcy when signing contracts with publishers from what I could glean, but all financial dealings would have to be in the real name of the bankrupt person. In the piece shared by @Peladon the writer says, he hopes Salray has set up an unlimited company to protect herself, with indemnities and such.

FWIW I think they didn't declare bankruptcy because they very likely still had a house full of possessions, 2 cars and even a bit of money in the bank. I can imagine they would rather keep that than lose it on top of the house if declaring bankruptcy. Better for them to do a midnight flit from Pen-y-Maes. Though I wonder if the creditor has finally caught up with them.

That's a good point @SimoArmo, they said that they had no money, if that's believed then, they could have declared themselves bankrupt, but it would have restricted them, using false names would have been difficult and they couldn't have set up the company they have with their children. It was speculated a while ago, that they might have bought a little flat as an investment for one of the children, did the Walkers inherit any money from their parents?

Yes, I don't think they would do that for a moment -- easier to just let things lie. But I don't think the film distributors suing PRH, or someone saying the medical claims in TSP caused him actual harm, is at all likely either. (Those were suggestions made in an article linked earlier.)

@Freshsocks, I was about to say that declaring yourself bankrupt lasts for a surprisingly short period of time, and Googled to find how long that was in the different parts of the UK (12 months, usually, so my point was going to be that if they'd declared themselves bankrupt at the time of the repossession, it would have been discharged long since by the time SW sold TSP and needed to set up as a company), but came across this on the Citizen's Advice website about which debts bankruptcy absolves you of, and which not:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/debt-and-money/debt-solutions/bankruptcy/how-bankruptcy-affects-you/check-which-debts-bankruptcy-covers/#h-debts-you-ll-still-have-to-pay

Loans secured against your home are not covered by bankruptcy, so even if they'd declared themselves bankrupt before the repossession, it wouldn't have saved their home.

And this:

If your home is repossessed and sold, but doesn't raise enough money to pay off your outstanding mortgage or any other debt secured on it, the remaining debt will no longer be secured. This means you'll be released from it at the end of your bankruptcy. The remaining debt is called 'mortgage shortfall'.

So it looks as if the people who bought the debt had no further claim on the Walkers after the house was sold, even if the mortgage lender recouped all the money raised by its sale? And perhaps for all SW's posturing about them choosing not to become bankrupt being somehow public-spirited, it was purely because it wouldn't have helped at all?

Just a feeling butI think everything will die down with time, until someone somewhere pops up 5 years from now saying they rented their finka in Southern Spain to a nice Welsh couple called Ally and Ty - he was apparently taken ill and everyone has been worried - except they’ve disappeared and they still owe money…

In thread 7, page 17, @merrymouse referred to an Observer article, with a quote from one of the 18%pa creditors, claiming that he has still not been paid.

Thread 7…. Unless the charabanc can do a U turn in this awful weather and plough its way back through mud and high winds…. I’ll have to use the search bar…!

I remember that, though didn’t it also sound as if he’d essentially forgotten about it? I didn’t have the impression he’d been actively pursuing the Walkers or trying to find them, that he’d written it off.

But if I’m understanding the Citizen’s Advice link correctly, he and the other man who bought the debt no longer have a claim anyway?

It may also raised questions about their ongoing entitlement to a benefits for at least a period as I think certain restrictions apply where claimants have made themselves intentionally unemployed or bankrupt.

I got my Holter results, paroxsymal atrial fibrillation (which is less awful than it sounds), poss heart block, various other bits going on. They think it is because of the sepsis. I knew something was wrong so far better to know and get treatment.

💐 @Uricon2 — absolutely better to know more and have a treatment plan. Very best wishes.

That is very interesting @HumoursofBandon, I keep forgetting how long ago the house repossession was, I'm sure years ago being bankrupt was longer, I had a look and until 2004, it was three years, they changed it to one year, but it is still on file for six years and can affect credit. But as you point out, bankruptcy wouldn't have stopped the house being repossessed and they would have been discharged before TSP.

Just read your message @Uricon2, definitely better to know, take care of yourself 💐

This is understandable since he would have spent money pursuing the court case only to see the prior claim of the mortgage lender take precedence 3 years later. That said I think he will still have a legal case for pursuing his claim which is probably not time barred and has already been granted by the courts. I can see why the Walkers did not go into bankruptcy and are not investing in tangible UK assets (I note the royalties received in their" cider" company are being paid out rather than being retained in the company) as this would make it much more difficult for any creditors to pursue their claims. I'm sure the Walkers probably don't consider that the Cooper mortgage has any validity as they think it belongs to the now liquidated company rather than the individual, despite the court having ruled otherwise - but little things like the law have never had much respect from that quarter.

I really feel for you! I can’t imagine what you’ve been going through. 💐🌻🌞get well soon.

So you think those men who bought the debt still have a legal case against the Walkers? Would interest on the loan have been mounting all these years?

Despite what the Citizens Advice says, I beleive that the owners of the debt still have a legal case.
Pop the 12.01 post into ChatGPT.
There are two questions
1)was the debt with or without recourse?
2) Are they able to persure?
Now, if SW/TW went to ground they couldnt persure. They can now....

£100,000 at 18% compound interst would be £523,384 after 10 years.
Did SW/RW say that she had settled her debts?

That to me reads that bankruptcy WOULD have got them off them hook for the shortfall of debt owed following the repossession. But since they didnt declare themselves bankrupt my understanding is they still owe the outstanding debt.

I think the quotation back in the threads said the creditor talked about the debt having grown to over £400k, so that would fit. It also says that he made a comment along the lines of: running away and hiding is not keeping lines of communication to creditorz open.

@Uricon2 : pleased that you have a diagnosis and can get treated. Wishing you a fast and complete recovery.

It doesn't matter if the 18% pa creditors haven't been paid the debt is now time expired.

What is the timeline for that kind of expiration?

They may still owe the debt but the WinnWalkers cannot be taken to court over it as the debt is time expired.