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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

A genuine question for royalists.

218 replies

Tutorpuzzle · 31/10/2025 11:45

I am a republican. I believe that absolute power can only end in disaster. Trump appears to want absolute power. Boris Johnson tried it (proroguing of parliament, amongst other things.)
Please can you tell me why you think (ignoring the Windsors self-destructive present tendencies), having a head of state who is in position only by accident of birth is a good thing?

OP posts:
EasternEcho · 01/11/2025 17:52

Isheagrump · 01/11/2025 17:46

Sure, let’s have a child rapist for King. The bar for the Royals is so low now, I’m not sure anyone would be surprised.

Trump is still president, and a convicted offender. So I don't see how being an elected official would make any difference. To be honest it seems like there's a better chance of parliament intervening in case a monarch is a sex offender, than there is of getting rid of Trump.

AgnesMcDoo · 01/11/2025 18:08

Boris never tried for absolute power and was no even slightly close to it. It’s hyperbole to suggest otherwise.

trump is concerning but hopefully there are enough checks and balances in the American system.

generally I find out constitutional monarchy far preferable to a president trump or president Johnston or president sturgeon.

mutinyonthetwix · 01/11/2025 18:13

EasternEcho · 01/11/2025 17:52

Trump is still president, and a convicted offender. So I don't see how being an elected official would make any difference. To be honest it seems like there's a better chance of parliament intervening in case a monarch is a sex offender, than there is of getting rid of Trump.

Why would you need an elected official to replace the monarch though? If the monarchy were abolished tomorrow what exactly needs replacing?

You'd need a mechanism to determine who gets to be Prime Minister after an election. That can be fixed procedurally like in basically every other parliamentary democracy.

You'd need to replace Royal Assent but that is basically just feudal frippery.

Anything else?

waitamo · 01/11/2025 18:18

Dissolving Parliament to head off a coup?
Signing legislation into law, or indeed NOT signing it if it ain't ahem, legal!
Being head of the armed forces, see coup above re Parliament
Receiving Ambassadors
And so on.

A non executive figurehead to represent us. That we can get rid of if we want. Can't do that now.

mutinyonthetwix · 01/11/2025 18:37

waitamo · 01/11/2025 18:18

Dissolving Parliament to head off a coup?
Signing legislation into law, or indeed NOT signing it if it ain't ahem, legal!
Being head of the armed forces, see coup above re Parliament
Receiving Ambassadors
And so on.

A non executive figurehead to represent us. That we can get rid of if we want. Can't do that now.

Ok a few thoughts -

A coup is underway. Under what specific circumstances does a monarch intervene and how precisely do they intervene?

If a law is illegal, as happens from time to time, the courts strike it down not the monarch. Monarchs given Royal Assent to illegal legislation and never once blocked a single illegal Act. As I said, Royal Assent is merely feudal frippery. Parliament is sovereign and doesn't need a rubber stamp.

Why do the armed forces need a monarch as their head?

The Foreign Sec received ambassadors pretty much every day. The monarch doesn't really.

AnareticDegree · 01/11/2025 18:58

This thread is more entertaining than the new Spitting Image off to Tesco's to get the popcorn in

EasternEcho · 01/11/2025 19:00

mutinyonthetwix · 01/11/2025 18:13

Why would you need an elected official to replace the monarch though? If the monarchy were abolished tomorrow what exactly needs replacing?

You'd need a mechanism to determine who gets to be Prime Minister after an election. That can be fixed procedurally like in basically every other parliamentary democracy.

You'd need to replace Royal Assent but that is basically just feudal frippery.

Anything else?

I am not talking about any direct replacement. My response is within the context of the OP talking about the monarch vs elected politicians, and the poster I was replying to talking about Andrew and bar being low. It has nothing to do with the tangent you are going off on. Anything else?

Calliopespa · 01/11/2025 19:05

KoiTetra · 31/10/2025 12:19

My view on why I prefer monarchy over republic:

  1. I do not trust anyone who chooses to put themselves forward for a position with that much power and prestige - Those born into the role with no choice are in my view more likely to put the nation before self interest.
  2. The royal family contribute economically to the UK. It is hard to find exact figures but the majority of studies agree that the royal family are net contributors to the UK economy via tourism etc. Yes people would still come to see palaces etc without them but not on the same scale, you will never convince me that there will be as much interest in a historic relic as there is in a working palace.
  3. I do not trust the British public to vote for anyone decent. Look at our history of MP's and PM's they are shocking, the general public are shocking at picking leaders.
  4. As Trump has shown an elected leader with enough support and desire can override checks and balances and take more and more power. How would republicans (who as a generalisation tend to be left wing / left leaning) feel if Farage was voted in as President and begun to dismantle the checks put in to limit his power?
  5. I agree with your statement absolute power results in disaster, this is why our current system works. The King has very little real power.

Agree with 1 and 3.

I'm not a raging Royalist, but I don't see it as inferior to other attempts to solve the problem.

AnareticDegree · 01/11/2025 19:09

PaddlingSwan · 01/11/2025 15:04

I agree with all those, who believe that an elected head of state is not the way to go.
I think the late Queen was so good at her job precisely because she was not born into the immediate line of succession. She followed the example of her late father, who assumed the role out of a sense of duty.
Sadly the late Queen ascended the throne far earlier than she could have expected, and it was her sense of duty that made her reign so remarkable.
Unfortunately, I am not so impressed by those born into the immediate line of succession. There is a definite air of entitlement.
Not wishing ill on anyone, but I do wonder if the country might not be better off, were some terrible stroke of fate to cause the line of succession to take a side-step.

It isn't a job, it was a role artificially created by George the whatever number he was, to preserve wealth and not end up like the Romanovs.

Arguably she was also a crap mother and a very bad embodiment of what British people stand for.

LamourdesTrois · 01/11/2025 19:13

Fearfulsaints · 31/10/2025 12:23

I used to be republican. I sort of still am in principle

But our head of state doesnt have any real power and a lot of other political systems the head of state does.

We've gone with a constitutional monarchy that has a lot if symbolism in it. I have wondered if it could all be replaced literally with a crown. So our head of state was an inanimate object symbolising all that had gone before it. It could be brought out at state functions and ceremonies, opening if parliament but with no wearer, going forward.

I like this idea. We could keep the pomp and pageantry but ditch the archaic hereditary monarchy.

mutinyonthetwix · 01/11/2025 19:13

EasternEcho · 01/11/2025 19:00

I am not talking about any direct replacement. My response is within the context of the OP talking about the monarch vs elected politicians, and the poster I was replying to talking about Andrew and bar being low. It has nothing to do with the tangent you are going off on. Anything else?

Fair do's my misunderstanding.

But the Parliamentary Standards Act would kick in for an elected official here unlike a royal surely? See e.g. Mike Amesbury.

LoopedLooped · 02/11/2025 09:16

Ukisgaslit · 01/11/2025 14:25

@LoopedLooped

I’m sure this back and forth is as tiresome for you as it is for me .

What that statement ‘ no public money has been used’ means is the Windsors didn’t hand the bill to Parliament

Where do you think Elizabeth Windsor got her so called ‘private money’ money from ?
From us

She was said to have paid off her son’s accuser with Duchy money .

Furthermore did you also miss the Duchy scandal with William and Charles charging the NHS , charities , schools , life boat charities rent ? They call that money their ‘private money’ too . So private it is in fact that we do not know if William even pays a penny of tax on it . He tells us he does but he has refused to to make his accounts public ( Charles did to some extent ). We know that they don’t pay Capital gains tax or corporation tax - because they don’t want to .

Public / private money smokescreen .
I hope MPs finally listen to the public and debate this medieval rip off properly now .

The Windsors have their own money. If Keir Starmer used his salary to pay for a summer holiday for his children did we "pay for his holiday".

Andrew (I believe) sold a property in Switzerland. They used money from their private wealth which is theirs. They own property. They can use it.

And yes, oh no and behold they charges organisations (public, private or charity) money for rent/storage/usage costs. It's minuscule compared to the crown estate of which HM treasury get the whole money. They operate as commercial estates. They voluntarily pay income tax on the surplus. It doesn't bother me. We get a good deal from the crown estate anyway.

MasterBeth · 02/11/2025 09:24

How did they get their "private wealth"?

LoopedLooped · 02/11/2025 09:49

MasterBeth · 02/11/2025 09:24

How did they get their "private wealth"?

From medieval times and feudal power. I know my history

Ukisgaslit · 02/11/2025 09:53

You don’t know your recent history @LoopedLooped

The wealth of the Windsors has ballooned in the last 50 years

And you may not grasp why it is deeply wrong for a tax payer supported family to charge the essential services the rest of us pay for and rely on but most people do .

Tutorpuzzle · 02/11/2025 09:54

We are so honoured, aren’t we, @LoopedLooped , that they voluntarily pay taxes (25% no less!), on their private income. (Not inheritance tax, though.)

I’m fair doffing my cap at the thought…

OP posts:
BarbieShrimp · 02/11/2025 09:58

I'm not particularly close with my mother, but if I was spending time with someone like Epstein for years, she'd know about it, and have an opinion.

Andrew didn't develop in isolation. It hints at a family which is isolated, sick and delusional. Even if I was a royalist, I wouldn't want my country to be "figureheaded" by this lot.

RockaLock · 02/11/2025 10:14

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 01/11/2025 09:46

Are you aware that UK monarchs absolutely do not have absolute power? In fact they have sod all - in the way of governmental power.

Indeed, maybe OP has never heard of the Magna Carta…

Tutorpuzzle · 02/11/2025 10:18

Oh, dear god, if we’re starting on the Magna Carta as a reason to keep the present system, @RockaLock , then scraping the barrel doesn’t even begin to cover it.

Do better!

OP posts:
GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/11/2025 10:51

RockaLock · 02/11/2025 10:14

Indeed, maybe OP has never heard of the Magna Carta…

Or of the king who had his head chopped off…

Cartot · 02/11/2025 10:54

I think we need a public information campaign about why the Magna Carta isn’t a valid argument for anything in the 21st century.

CatHairEveryWhereNow · 02/11/2025 13:00

Not wishing ill on anyone, but I do wonder if the country might not be better off, were some terrible stroke of fate to cause the line of succession to take a side-step.

I would not prefer Harry or Andrew - and frankly wouldn't wish it on any of the kids till they reach adulthood.

We have in past skipped over 50 +people with Hannovians and we did side step Edward VIII and got the much better George VI. So not against it but not sure who you have your eye on as a stand out candidate.

It is the downside to monarchy we have were succesion is set - it wasn't always as clear cut - but act of succsion could be change by Parliment - they don't have to go down direct line they could do anything with it really - it's already been recently modified to stop prioritizing boys/men.

That why I'd want to know what the new system would be - there are downsides to this one - and upsides so is any new system would have to be better because there will be a price for the change.

If look at the deomocatic index:

Top ten are Norway, New Zealand, Sweeden, Iceland, Switzerland, Finland,Denmark, Ireland, Netherlands and Luxembourg.

Norway is constitutional democracy with a consitional monarchy. UK is at 17th in world still considered a full democratic system . USA is at 28th - consider a flawed democracy even France has now slipped into being veiwed as a flawed democracy by the Enconomicts group.

So Ireland, Iceland, Switzwrland and Finland all republics would be worth a look - absolutely not the USA system and probably not France as we don't want something worse than current UK. The rest of the top ten have constitional monacharies or with Luxembourg a Grand Duke but similar set up. I don't want changes that would make us less democratic and that's clearly a risk.

Much as it's a daft system to still have in 2025 it's still a stable one that many of the most democratic governments in the world still have - so if we do want to get rid of UK Monarchy I'd want a better reason that I don't like it or it's not fair.

Plus I'd want to know why we'd spend time and money doing it now when there a huge backpile of issues in UK that could do with attention and money. If we spend money in courts working how who owns what and poltcial energy fighting on what we put in to replace current sytsem - that time and money not spent on education, health, infrastructure/housing or defence all of which kind of feel more important to most voters.

If republican were serious they'd put forwards actual plans and explain to voters why it's a better system - why it was worth the cost. Instead they just moan about RF - who aren't great but are mostly irrelvant or could be contained better by politicians who don't have to keep granting them or crown exemptions - they could say no and likely would have public on side.

Calliopespa · 02/11/2025 13:09

Tutorpuzzle · 02/11/2025 10:18

Oh, dear god, if we’re starting on the Magna Carta as a reason to keep the present system, @RockaLock , then scraping the barrel doesn’t even begin to cover it.

Do better!

Edited

But they don't have any real power OP

Isheagrump · 02/11/2025 14:29

EasternEcho · 01/11/2025 17:52

Trump is still president, and a convicted offender. So I don't see how being an elected official would make any difference. To be honest it seems like there's a better chance of parliament intervening in case a monarch is a sex offender, than there is of getting rid of Trump.

Sorry, but what had that got to do with anything? Putin is fixing elections, North Korea is a dictatorship, postman pat has a black and white cat, Andrew Mountbatten whatever is a rapist…

Ukisgaslit · 02/11/2025 15:38

@CatHairEveryWhereNow

These sweeping comparisons with ‘constitutional monarchies’ in Europe are really irrelevant re the UK and a bit of a distraction .

European monarchies keep their head down, cost substantially less ( even when viewed pro rata to population) than ours and most importantly of all , they are subservient to Parliament .
The fact that we persist with the medieval joke of a coronation is significant. William doesn’t even believe and is certainly not religious - I don’t think he will even have a coronation which would help .

We are told the Windsors have no power but that’s a lie . A lie proven by recent events . Andrew was and remains above the law - nervermind what else is being covered up .

No- the main reason Ireland and Norway are listed is probably due to their electoral system -I believe both countries use PR voting .

The fact is the UK in 2025 looks ( and is in my opinion ) backwards looking , hidebound and embarrassing.
You want a suggestion?
Stop the rip off of the Soverign grant that the tortes brought in after years of campaigning by Elizabeth and Charles and return to the Civil List with its annual Parliamentary debate. That could be done tomorrow .
The Windsors hated that debate . That’s all you need to know .

Also easily achieved would be the medieval rip off of William and Charles’ Duchies taken off them and folded into the crowd estates. .Also rename the crown estate ‘the national estate’

As for longer term - if we retain the Windsors - I doubt we will btw- they pay all taxes including back dated inheritance taxes and have a fixed salary as a president would.
Most people might be happy with those reforms
Problem is the Windsors wouldn’t be and would remove themselves - and stuff your ‘heritage’