To think it's time for a woman to be Prime Minister

[Cinnamon77]

It doesn't look like Starmer is going to be PM for much longer but all the favourites to replace him are men.

Every female PM we've had has been Conservative - no woman has ever led the Labour Party before.

Wouldn't it be an improvement to have a left wing woman running the country, like we've seen elsewhere? There are many good female MPs in Labour like Raynor, Mahmood, Huq, Phillips, Siddiq, Leadbeater, Thornberry, Dodds, Kendall, Haigh, Butler and Reeves (Ellie, not Rachel).

Why aren't any of them contenders and wouldn't we be doing better if one of them was in charge?

Hi, Thanks OP. Your list gave me a laugh!
No
I do not want a prime minister who- commits tax fraud, is involved in the think tank corruption, has been suspended for racism, has tried to dilute the grooming gang investigation, has had to resign due to a bangladesh corruption situation, publically has called Donald Trump a racist sexist predator (whether he is or not it is not going to make for a great relationship), axed fuel payments while claiming taxpayer money to heat her home, was found guilty of fraud, tweets racism, accepts gifts and does not pay her rental licence

And I do not think that anyone would!

Unfortunately I think the current political climate (I’ve got my theories, but hesitate to bore pps) militates against really excellent people emerging. Some of the most able minds have left UK politics over the last ten or so years. I thought David Milliband had huge potential, and for the Conservatives, Rory Stewart (but he’d never get elected- far too intellectual, fair-minded and nuanced). I actually like Theresa May at first. I thought she was a steady pair of hands but she misjudged things and Johnson got in.

Who else? It’s a sad, desolate scene really on all sides of politics. Apart from Yvette Cooper..who would I trust? The awful crying incident with Rachel Reeves raised a lot of issues. Some think we shouldn’t criticise her for crying- and that politics would be a better place if emotions were tolerated more. But I felt it wasn’t a good look. Optics are important, whatever we say. Senior minister do need to be tough if we’re to have confidence in the. Of course I felt for RR on a personal level but I cringed for her professionally.

@CoffeeCantata Unfortunately I think the current political climate (I’ve got my theories, but hesitate to bore pps) militates against really excellent people emerging. Some of the most able minds have left UK politics over the last ten or so years.

I am afraid I agree with you there. If we are not happy with the lot that we have among the country's political leadership, then we ought to bear in mind that people like Starmer did not emerge from nowehere. They are also a product of our society and somehow it's in this society "leaders" like him were allowed to come up in their ranks.

We don't seem to have any real statesmen anymore. And not just in the UK but across the board in all G7 countries as a minimum. I remember there was a story about Sunak refusing to meet the Greek PM because there was some disagreement about some statues that Greece demanded that we return. I thought it was completely pathetic that he cancelled the meeting with the Greek PM over that and can't believe that we have come to have PMs of this sort. Yes, OK, you disagree on the subject of those statues but, for God's sake, man up and face the conversation: the Greek PM wants them back, you don't agree, then just say so. Imagine if we cancelled work meetings because we disagree with our colleagues on one topic or another? Funny enough, I can't actually imagine Thatcher cancelling a meeting with any PM of another country because she disagreed with them!

Today, however, quite a lof ot politicians behave like children: oh, they don't like the leaders of Iran, Russia or another country, so they won't talk to them at all. As if anyone can just cancel Iran, Russia or another country just because western leaders don't agree with what they are doing? In my memory, western leaders haven't been in agreement with the USSR throughout its existence too but that never stopped the old lot from engaging and negotiating various issues. They somehow behaved like adults as a minimum, which is the least that we should be able to expect from them.

Or take the latest: the petition against digital ID gathered nearly 3M signatures and what does Starmer's government do? Debate it? Come out on TV to talk to the opposition, the press, go talk to various representatives of the public etc? No, they provide a written response that basically says "we are doing it anyway" and that's that. And how often do we generally see Starmer or any recent PM going to meet with the public on any issue? Like I said, I kind of feel like we have administrators or managers in charge, not statesmen anymore.

Classism? Hmm not convinced I saw classism in that remark. Also, not necessarily misogyny either, if a man had hair like Brian May, I'm not sure how appropriate that would be either... maybe you just love isms

We had a PM with hair like Boris Johnson’s. Didn’t see pp criticising him. At least not for his hair.

No I don't mean that.

Maybe ask me, instead of speaking for me? I would like Governments to be 50/50. It is important that both genders are represented.

I could ask you the same thing. As you are upset that Sanna Marin had five more women ministers than men.

I presume you are also upset that we have had so little female prime ministers in the UK compared to male prime ministers? The imbalance is huge, at this stage.

Also look at what Sanna Marin went through.

She said

The Finnish female party leaders were "subjected to a never-ending stream of mainly sexually charged online threats", Marin writes in Finnish.
"I have been threatened with rape and other forms of sexual assault so many times that I have lost count," she says.
The coalition leaders were dismissively nicknamed the "lipstick government" and the "girl government".

I am not upset by any of this at all 😂Like I said, when it comes to jobs, people's competence is more important to me than their gender. You, on the other hand, said that Marin was all for gender balance and that's really what you like. However, when her cabinet is shown not be to quite so balanced, you start bringing up some imaginary upset into it 🙄

I said that she did a lot for gender equality in her country. I didn't mention anything about the ministers in her government.

No government anywhere in the world is 50/50 male female right now. So her Government is no different to any other Government.

The UK government are also not 50/50 male female.

Are you a man or a woman by the way. You seem to be very anti women?

@Finto1111 Are you a man or a woman by the way. You seem to be very anti women?

And are you a man or a woman by the way? You seem to be very antimen!

I am a woman.

You?

Me too but only God knows why that matters to you and how you concluded that I was antiwoman from my belief that people should be selected for jobs based on merit and merit alone!

The issue Starmer has is that he does not connect with the public, and terrible pr. He has a real battle on his hands to get the country back on its feet

its not about his capability of being PM

The only one on you list who I feel would have challenged Starmer is Rayner but has ruined her political career (Rayner is a backbench campaigner not a leader)

Because it's so blindingly obvious, I don't know how you don't see it.

When people have ALREADY been selected for jobs NOT based on merit, but on gender.

Eg there have been 55 male prime ministers to 3 female prime ministers in the UK. They were NOT selected on merit. They were selected on gender.

It is then important to select on gender to help swing it the other way. Otherwise it is imbalanced and unfair for ages.

That is why they had to introduce gender quotas in the Republic of Ireland in politics, for example. Men were simply not letting women be in politics in large numbers, before that happened

I don't know how my alleged antiwoman stance is so blindingly obvious to you from my comment about merit. I didn't say that everyone in the country's government or in any other job is currently selected based on merit and competence alone. I said that I believe that this is what SHOULD happen. It doesn't mean that it happens now or will ever happen in the future. Unfortunately. What I certainly don't believe in is selection for jobs based on people's gender or any such other factor in a bid to "equalise" things. If a woman happens to be the most competent candidate, then she should get the job. If it happens to be a man, then he should. That's all. I don't really know how to make what I am saying any clearer than that.

What if there is no possible way for the women to get the job, without gender quotas.

In Ireland, male dominated politicL parties were not even selecting women to be voted for by the public.

They kept selecting mostly male candidates to put to the vote.

The Irish public then had no choice. They could then only vote for mostly male candidates.

The imbalance became so severe that it made Ireland look bad and eventually the parties had to agree to gender quotas.

These gender quotas ensure that some women are at least selected for a public vote.

The Irish public now have the chance to vote for men or women.

Before the gender quota, the public werent even getting a CHANCE to vote for a lot of women, if they wanted to.

@Finto1111 Female ministers of Ireland up until the time of the so called quotas. Doesn't look like there has been NO way that women could get jobs in politics in Ireland. I don't know if any women will ever make it to the top job but I am pretty sure that the people of Ireland would like the top job to go to the most competent person.

Mary Coughlan (Fianna Fáil): Minister for Social and Family Affairs (2002-2004), Minister for Agriculture, Tánaiste (2008-2011), Minister for Enterprise, Minister for Education and Skills, Minister for Health and Children (multiple portfolios over 2002–2011)

Mary Hanafin (Fianna Fáil): Minister for Education (2004-2008), Minister for Social and Family Affairs (2008-2010), Minister for Tourism, Culture and Sport (2010-2011)

Mary Harney (Progressive Democrats): Tánaiste (1997-2006), Minister for Health and Children (2004-2011)

Róisín Shortall (Labour): Minister of State for Health (2011-2012), resigned 2012 (served at junior rank only)

Joan Burton (Labour): Minister for Social Protection (2011-2016), Tánaiste (2014-2016)

Frances Fitzgerald (Fine Gael): Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (2011-2014), Minister for Justice and Equality (2014-2017), Tánaiste (2016-2017), Minister for Business, Enterprise and Innovation (2017-2018)

I didn't say there was no way at all for females into Government.

There were of course, some women in Government.

I wrote that the public could only vote for MOSTLY male candidates

I remember the gender balance in Irish government being so bad that it was around 85% male to 15% female, at one stage

Plus the three female Presidents - Mary Robinson (1990 - 1997), Mary McAleese (1997 - 2011) and the current President, Catherine Connolly.

Ireland has both a President and a Prime Minister.

The President has no political power at all.

They are someone to meet visitors to the country.

The Prime minister has the Political power.

There has never been a female Prime minister in the Republic of Ireland. Not one.

I think its time we had someone with competence as leader, be it male or female.
I cant see much to admire in the OP's list of female candidates. Thornbury would be an absolute No.

@Finto1111 I didn't say there was no way at all for females into Government.

You asked what if there was no way. This is a very hypothetical question in a modern world. There clearly have been and there are female ministers. These are senior posts in the government. I don't know why women don't often make it to those posts and therefore subsequently have fewer chances of getting the top job. There are a lot of factors which could influence the outcome.

I believe there should be equal opportunities for all but I don't believe that equality of outcome should be forced through quotas or some such measures as they themselves can lead to discrimination. And, yes, men can also be discriminated against, which would be just as wrong as any other discrimination.

While I think women should have the same chance as men, I don't think someone's going to be better JUST because she's a woman. Look across the Channel at Meloni, Weidel, LePen...

At any rate, I think the most important concern just now is to keep out Reform.

Yes leaders should be made to do specific training to even be eligible to get the job.

Thet let any old idiot be a leader these days. All mostly private school boys.