A 1p / 2p raise to income tax should lawfully trigger a general election

[TesChique]

There are vague promises in manifestos, and there are those which are explicit and should be binding except in exceptional circumstances (war etc)

If labour, or any party reneges on a core manifesto promise it should lawfully trigger a general election

They have lied to the public.

AIBU to think we need to see this change in law?

We are all already paying more tax, not raising the thresholds has pulled many poorer people into paying tax for the first time and pushed many more into 40% tax.

But it will bring people on the state pension into being tax payers when the pension increases in April. And some already are, even if they have a private pension of just a few hundred a year.

@Frequency It may be far more than £200 for people already paying 50% in tax and it will hit people who are vulnerable like pensioners.

The answer is to reform the benefits system but Labour chickened out of that.

So I've had a quick look at this "plan"

"1. Imagine Smart Immigration, Not Mass Immigration All non-essential immigration frozen to boost wages, protect public services, end the housing crisis and cut crime.

1. Imagine No More Small Boats in the Channel Illegal migrants who come to the UK will be detained and deported. And if needed, migrants in small boats will be picked up and taken back to France.

1. Imagine No NHS Waiting Lists Still free at the point of delivery, healthcare needs reform to improve outcomes and enjoy zero NHS waiting lists. Cut back office waste to spend more money on the frontline. Tax breaks for doctors and nurses to tackle the staffing crisis.

1. Imagine Good Wages for a Hard Day’s Work Lift the income tax starting threshold to £20k to save the lowest paid £1,500 per year. This takes 7 million of the least well-off out of Income Tax to make work pay and get people off benefits.

1. Imagine Affordable, Stable Energy Bills Scrap energy levies and Net Zero to slash energy bills and save each household £500 per year. Unlock Britain’s vast oil and gas reserves to beat the cost of living crisis and unleash real economic growth."

I love the way he's saying imagine, as this is all it is, imaginary.

If they get power, none of these will actually happen. He's talking out his arse.

There's no detail in how they'll do this. Just a wishlist of things that they think the electorate will want.

Yes. Zero NHS waiting lists would be great, but the cost of doing that would be astronomical. The only way of having zero NHS waiting list would be to have no NHS at all

To be fair to them, they use "imagine" at the start of each of their five pledges which is quite honest since it's not going to happen. But they can say they never promised it would, just told you to imagine.

Imagine a glorious future in which you get excellent public services but everyone you don't like doesn't!

PS Do you mean I have self- interest in money coming from the state? Why would you think that?

@Meadowfinch No one is competent enough to turn it around, it needs cross party consensus

That’s a tiny bit of admin and the fuss about it is why our country is buggered. No one spends time of serious conversations it’s just political gotcha’s all the time.

Not at all. Why do you think they’re doing a good job as they hike taxes and hammer growth?

I support rises in taxes.

But if Labour do increase income tax it then it is indisputable evidence they lied to get elected. It will be very hard to come back from that at the next election and will be a big benefit to all opposition parties.

I agree with you except the pensions. They receive less than £12k a year. Think about that. Some are on a lot less.

Private pensions weren't compulsory until 2018 so more than a third of pensioners have zero private pension. Literally nothing else. My dm had half of my f's RAF pension. It was £11 a week. So she was on basic state pension plus £550 p.a.

This assumption that all pensioners are wealthy is wrong, and needs addressing proportionately.

So why is the rest of Europe also struggling?

Brexit was a long time ago now, about time to stop blaming everything on that, look to the future, and sort out the current problems.

Yabu. No government keeps 100% of its manifesto because manifestos are written according to ideals and principles but governing happens in the real world. They have tried to do several of the things they planned to reduce expenditure and bring in more income without raising income tax and that hasn't solved things. Everyone agrees that they want the government to provide certain centrally funded services that cost money to run.

The ethical thing to do would be to increase the zero band threshold for income tax so that no one on minimum wage pays any extra that would be fine. Eg basic rate becomes 2% and threshold becomes 13900 instead of 12750. Its disgraceful how successive governments have chosen not to raise the thresholds - it used to be that the threshold was about level with a reasonable income to live a basic simple life on.

It affected Europe too.

Well, that won't happen. So what's your next move?

No party will ever make a law to ensure they are held to their own election pledges. It's not practical anyway. Arguably the incumbent could be, if they rewon, because they know all the facts. Opposition parties don't get to see the books, so it wouldn't be possible for them.

How old are you, OP?
This is such a naive view I suspect you are quite young.
All political parties renege on their manifesto pledges at times, this is nothing new, situations change.

What you are suggesting would be ridiculous & unworkable.

‘Need’ and solely breaking away from an existing, long-term structure are two different things.

It’s not Brexit affecting Europe. It’s structural problems, ageing populations and overly generous welfare states. Why should people be able to retire in their early sixties. They could quite easily live another 25/30 years

No that’s not why many EU countries are struggling.

Hmmm, I have thought about it, but I admit I haven't actually done it. I'd happily pay more but in a fair system where we all pay proportionally - not sure I want it to be just me who pays!

It is an interesting moral question though - if some of us are happy to pay more and others aren't, should we be the ones who pay? However in practice I think everyone would just see that as unfair and almost no-one would pay, so I'm pretty sure it would not be workable.

Well given it’s possible now and very few people volunteer money to the government let’s assume it’s unworkable

People can’t work k to their 80’s though. They’re too frail.

The easiest way out would actually be to increase other taxes and leave the ones they said they would leave alone alone.

Such as :

CGT.
Inheritance tax.
Car tax.
Stamp duty.
Other taxes on unearned income.

Then they would be able to weasel their way out of it by claiming they aren't raising the taxes they said they would hold.

The problem is they don't want to do this, as that would result in them paying more tax, and they are all in it up to their eyeballs.

Edit : Oh and curtail pension contribution relief because that is ridiculous.

If you wanted someone who genuinely told you what they would do and followed through with it, you need Thatcher or possibly Corbyn.
Most likely you didn't like either of them so you voted for those who said what you wanted to hear. That's politics.
It happens every time so I've no idea why you're surprised unless it's the first time you've been old enough to vote.
Every time except Thatcher, and that upset quite a few people too, who had assumed she was just saying it for the election and would back track in office like a proper politician.

Do you think just because something was ‘a long time ago’ that it has no impact?

No one said Europe isn’t facing economic challenges. The difference is the shorter and mid-term recoverability.

CGT.
Inheritance tax.
Car tax.
Stamp duty.
Other taxes on unearned income.

These will not raise enough. Nowhere near.

France’s struggles are mostly structural and domestic – long-standing issues that have built up over decades, like public debt, rigid labour markets, slow productivity growth, its political gridlock. These are internal economic and policy challenges.

When comparing to UK, the difference is the options of recoverability and compounding vulnerabilities.