AIBU to be angry at DH over insults used

[OnePunnyKoala]

DH got into an argument with DS16 over something petty and suddenly called him a "psychopath" as an insult. DS16 then got into another argument with him and said that the language he uses is unacceptable and shouldn't be used in any household. Instead of realising his mistake DH then proceeded to say I will have to start whipping you with a belt. What should I do? Is this common behaviour or completely unacceptable?

I'm raising my children to respect everyone equally, so not to call the police officer or the homeless man/other child a cunt.
Are your DC unable to think critically? Are they raised to respect authority but abuse those 'below them'? Is your culture one that turns a blind eye to abuse of women and children by authority figures because they are taught there is a hierarchy and they should never question authority and should blindly follow the rules?

@OnePunnyKoala Im sorry your thread has been hijacked by one particular poster.

From the way you describe it, it sounds like your son was being quite mature in the way he was bringing up issues with his father, but your DH was having an issue with it and had a knee-jerk reaction?

One thing I am not sure on - the threat. Was it said in a way that was obvious hyperbole and intended as an over the top joke? Or was it an actual physical threat? (I can almost imagine my DH saying something like this, but only because it’s so over the top it would defuse the situation and make everyone laugh at the absurdity.)

It’s behaviourally and developmentally normal for fathers and sons to reset the boundaries at this age, and ultimately leads to a much closer, more sustainable and genuine adult relationship. But genuine threats of violence are never OK.

OP, I'm sorry that your thread has been hijacked by a certain poster who seems to prioritise being right over being helpful. Perhaps the authoritarian mindset and the lack of challenge that comes with it leads to a blinkered world view and an inability to cooperate for the greater good even with your equals - as it does on a national level in authoritarian countries in my experience.

Anyway, to your question. I think that such nasty name calling and threat of violence in the home is not acceptable, and shows your husband is less able to deal maturely with conflict than your son (who identified that this is not acceptable). Is this a common occurrence or a one-off? Is your DH generally able to deal with conflict/arguements without resorting to insults and threats? Does your son argue with DH a lot or is it rare? What I'm trying to say is what's the context/background to this incident?

OP, I think @ElizabethsTailor 's post is good advice. I'm a slow typer, so would not have posted mine if I'd seen hers first. Good luck with resolving this issue.

You've asked a lot of questions here. I shall try and answer.

Firstly, you need people around, who as I said before, are loving, trustworthy and fair (FLT). There is another thread at the moment about an abusive son aged 21. He's grown up in a house where he had an abusive father (towards the mother at least), this is a different situation. OP here hasn't said there is abuse.

If you do not have a situation where the people around are loving, trustworthy and fair, then the people who are have to create one. Usually that is by leaving a relationship or cutting off family members. This answers your question about "what if an adult is wrong?". An FLT adult will listen to opposing viewpoints and consider that they may need to adjust their assessment accordingly.

There is a difference between raising your points for this type of consideration, and arguing. Arguing starts where it becomes not about giving new information, but debating values. For instance, my son wanted to attend something that he could theoretically get to without disrupting other commitments, but my issue was actually that he will be too fatigued from the first to perform well at the second, which is more important in my opinion.

On this matter, his opinion is not as informed as mine, because he is quite a young child and doesn't have the long term vision to truly prioritise accordingly. I would be fine with him pointing out that actually we do have enough time to get to both things, and even some pushback on what is more important, but after exchanging views, I'd expect him to accept my decision with as much grace as he can muster. This exchange of views is where he learns how to present his ideas and essentially "debate".

The FLT adult may still be wrong though. They may make a decision that with hindsight (because they are an FLT adult), they saw was the wrong one. They address that by being honest and apologising. That is a very valuable lesson for the child: you can be FLT and have great intentions, and still be wrong - and you still have to be accountable even though it was unintentional.

That's a complex lesson about trust. The people in your life who love you most will sometimes make mistakes, particularly at times where they can only choose one road and can't switch later on down the line. Seeing those in authority admit that and learn from it is very important for development. Again, it goes back to being an FLT adult.

I don't think we want a world where we are saying children should routinely test and challenge the worthiness of their parents as authority figures. I would like a world where adults sufficiently protect all children so they don't have to take that approach with people like their parents and their teachers because they are all FLT adults (or they aren't allowed to teach/parent).

No, sadly. Back then children did as they were told and respected their parents.

Yes they can think critically enough to understand that they can call both people cunts whether they deserve it or not, but only one of the people can actually arrest them for it because of their status.

That doesn't make it okay to call a homeless person a cunt just because they can't arrest you, and they know that too. They also know there can be social consequences to your actions. So someone might not want to be your friend any more if they saw you treat a homeless person that way.

That's critical thinking. Understanding how society works. You can call most people a cunt and not have many consequences for your actions. You'll likely have many more consequences to face if you do it to a police officer.

There is no point in recent history where teenagers didn't rebel against their parents.

This.

Nope just quoting your previous post of children thinking they have rights.

It is clear that you lacked those healthy conflict opportunities so there is not much use in trying to reason with you.

What i will say is not all parents are correct and have their child's best interests at heart. Sometimes standing up to "authority" is the best thing for the child

You ignored the part about abuse, interesting.
Thinking about what will have the worst impact on your life is not critical thinking, it's self-centred thinking.

Well he's not exactly being set a great example about how to communicate. How is he supposed to learn how to put his point of view across in a reasonable way when that is how he is treated?

are you asian?

No, their parents mostly beat them into submission.

@MyWorthyDenimFinch
Thanks for your response, that's a useful addition.

Can you please address these questions that you missed from before:

First topic:
Does this "obey your parents" mentality continue forever, even when the "child" is well into adulthood? If not, at what age do they get a say? If it does continue, how does that work when the "child" is in the prime of adult life but the "parent" is now elderly and potentially with declining cognitive faculties and/or less understanding of how the world works as things have moved on?

Second topic:
Are there any limits to your view on accepting parental authority? For example, what should an child do if their parent is abusive, or if the parent believes a child should follow a course at school/career which the child does not want to, or if the parent wants/does not want the (adult) child to have a relationship with a certain person or type of person?

Also, you've emphasised the importance of the adults being "FLT" - but the reality is that a good proportion of adults aren't, and aren't able to emotionally regulate themselves, nor give well thought out responses etc - so in those cases, to what extent do you believe the child should continue to obey a parent who may be none of F, L or T, especially when such obedience may be detrimental to the child?

This is a great summary and pretty much how my children have been raised.
My DD in particular was fantastic at persuasive reasoning. We therefore took on board what she said and often changed our minds. There have never been any arguments in our household, certainly never any shouting. And to be honest, not very much debate as we aren't particularly strict.
Only problem is we do now have an exceptionally conflict avoidance youngest DS which can be an issue. How to engineer conflict when there isn't any is tricky!