Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

I think this idea of choice is misleading too

its not that you can choose to do whatever you want but that you have the ability to make your own decisions

so men have ‘choice?’ - not most of them but they’ve always had the ability to make certain decisions. And when a woman talks about working or sahm it’s implicit that the man will just go along with what she chooses

Its not unhelpful. If people believe it is feminism that has caused the hardships of today, we will see our rights rolled back to make things better in a way that didnt exist if they think women were not working at all and everyone had a mortgage on one salary.

And white good (fridges etc) and TVs were so much more expensive too, we had a tv from Radio Rentals in our first flat

I am a millennial sometimes depending on the cut off and I think what you actually want is to be wealthy enough you don’t have to work. Which with feminism it is easier to do without a man as you can own your own money, investments and properties and have a well paying career.

I cannot believe my contemporaries fancy going back to the days when women weren’t allowed to do anything because they think it would be less stressful. Even a gilded cage is still a cage and you’re far more likely to have been scrubbing toilets for pence than entertaining dowager ladies in the drawing room if you think about the past.

Honestly look around at the men you know - would you really want to be 100% reliant on their largesse to survive and for your children’s survival?

If they are SAHP after m/paternity leave then they are a SAHP.
I dont think there is a time limit on it (edit to add) until they stop being a SAHP by going back to work.

Did you have to put 50p in it when you wanted to watch it? Those were different days!!

I do think a lot of younger people don't really get what life was like for most in those days.

I get the sentiment that now we have to work while also running a home and doing childcare, but in terms of we have it less good now, tell that to the women who couldn't work and were stuck in abusive marriages because they didn't have their own means to leave.

But it’s not true that women weren’t working and running the house and doing the childcare in the past. And they couldn’t leave without possibly losing custody of their kids!

I'm not saying this was all women. I'm saying there were absolutely women who couldn't/didn't work and were therefore stuck in abusive marriages without the means to leave. I know because my great aunt was one of those women.
And exactly as you say, if they left they could have lost custody of their kids.
Things might still be hard now but we have so many more freedoms and choices today than women had in days gone by.

My mum had 5 kids and a domineering, violent husband who worked rotating shifts. She had no time to herself. He wouldn't let her learn to drive. She'd had to give up teaching when she got pregnant the first time. When she looked into returning after the youngest started school, Dad went ballistic as he'd be shamed for "not being able to support his family". There were no refuges, no support for mothers who left their husbands.

A woman I know left her husband after he put her in intensive care. She had one child. She got a council house due to her documented injuries. When she walked her child to and from the bus stop for school, people threw stones at her.

When I started working full time, it was normal to be interrogated about my personal life and plans to have children. If they thought you were a pregnancy risk, you wouldn't get the job.

If you queried why a male colleague got a promotion when you, as well or better qualified, hadn't been invited to apply, you were told he had a family to support so deserved more money.

The sexual harassment was open and off the scale, as others have described.

No, I don't think it was better for women!

there were absolutely women who couldn't/didn't work and were therefore stuck in abusive marriages

Employers routinely asked married women if their husbands agreed to their working. It was acceptable for them to confirm this with the husband.

All in all, society exerted tremendous pressure on women to get married, stay married and know their place. Divorced women were shamed for not being "able to keep a husband". They were socially shunned and sometimes, as with my neighbour, assaulted just for bringing "shame" on the community by being a mother without a man.

Shocking examples @GarlicHound ! I think too many people have a rose-tinted view of the past and don't get me started on the so-called 'tradwives' influencers who are basically monetising this misguided nostalgia through a weird cosplay fetish.

I'm out of patience with women like the OP, where I can't work out if she's being goady or dim or both. People will blame anything and everything before they name neoliberal capitalism as the reason they find life hard. But no, the fact that you can't afford a house must be because of those pesky feminists campaigning for your freedom for the past century. Give me strength.

The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare.

For the millionth time YOU DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS. As a woman in 2025 you can choose not to have children; you can select a husband who will share the domestic load; you can go out to work and pay for someone else to do it. The reason you have those choices is because of feminism.

What changes do the people who think feminism has made things worse want? Im genuinely fascinated. Do you actually want it to be illegal for women to work?

A lot of this, if not all of this, still happens today @GarlicHound

Do divorced women get stones thrown at them in places like the UK?

In any case, when you point out that things aren't yet perfect, you are 1) not denying that they were much, much worse for women in 'the good old days ', and 2) not arguing for abandoning feminism. What we need is to keep up the fight, not give up the fight.

@PeonyPatch it shouldn’t be happening today at least not in the UK.

I have never been asked by an employer what my plans are around starting a family. I have never known divorced women being pelted with stones.

There is unarguably a far greater degree of protection under the law for women to leave abusive men and lead economically independent lives. I can’t really see how you can arrive at the conclusion that nothing has changed?

Most of this is just people whining about being too busy and having to work.

I don’t believe anyone posting about how “feminism has failed” has a properly thought through manifesto for rolling back protections for women. They are just picking up dog whistle stuff from tradwife instagram and far right media.

If they actually had to go back to living in a time when they had to ask permission to open a bank account they would be running back screaming to 2025.

So, to summarise...
"I'd personally prefer to be married to a man who earns enough to keep me so I dont need to work. But because things have become pretty expensive of late, particularly in the SE (did I mention that I need to live a 'middle class life' in the SE too...?) then the man in question has got to be pretty rich. Unfortunately there aren't enough very high earners who want to keep SAH wives to go round so my dream is unlikely to come true.
I'm pretty peeved about that truth be told, and looking for someone to blame. I've never been fully on board with feminism because 'equality' does sound a bit like having to do some things I'd rather leave to men.
So probably it's feminism thats to blame for me not having such a nice life as my nan"

I think the issue is women want to be equal to men. In the past women were (typically ) housewives and child rearers and were considered subservient to men. Now we are all the above plus part of the workforce but still don’t have equality.

I don’t blame feminism though. I blame the patriarchy.

That’s still happening now! Because women can’t afford to live alone/purchase/rent a house solo.

You can't blame feminism for that!

Men are finding it difficult to house themselves, too.

You are the first person bringing this up. This is always in my mind. I don't understand why people say femisim is about "choice". Do mean have a choice?

What happen if tomorrow my husband tells me he feels like being a homemaker? Would I like that? No. I wouldn't.

As I wouldn't like an alpha male working 24/7 and never being at home or share the house work. I want an equal partner to work, bring money and also share the jobs in the house equally.

I don’t blame feminism I’m just saying same shit different view.

Salaries were higher? Are you joking.