Feminism sold a lie - Women, today, are worse off than ever

[ConservativeC2]

Listening to the women I work with, it's been interesting to hear their views about feminism and they are not happy. We are all millennial age so not too young, not too old and I keep hearing that it's the millennial generation of women that have absolutely lost out the most.

I think feminism initially promoted some idea of independence, equality and choice. Phrases like 'men hold all the money and power' at the time were very emotive whilst not entirely true. The correct statement then (and still now) is some men hold all the money and power. Most men back in the 50s-70s worked very long hours and spent pretty much all their money on their family. It was hard for everyone, but I think women were more empowered then than now.

In contrast to today, most of the women my age have to work. Whilst feminism promotes choice, most of them do not actually have a choice today. Most men today do not earn enough to run a household which means most women have to work. The worst part is they still do a larger share of the domestic work and childcare. So I think women now have it worse than ever - it's not just me, my female colleagues feel the same way. They've come to point in life where they want to start a family but they know they will have to come back to work.

Now it's all to do with feminism. There are other factors which has driven up the cost of living (inflation, property prices, profit extraction from multinational corporates etc).

I agree also. This is an area that I’m actually very passionate about as I feel it has a massive impact/benefit for the good of society - the importance of attachment and child development. I’m sorry to those who haven’t been able to spend more time with their children, but that shouldn’t continue, I’d lobby personally to change that for the better!

Yes - there are difficult choices to be made! I'm still very employable at 54 because of shortages in my field, and I was lucky to walk back into a job on the same salary grade after 18 years of doing very part-time and piecemeal work. But... my pension is looking very meagre!

Sounds like you under-estimate how much commitment it takes to sustain a marriage for over 20 years- you both have a great deal to be proud of IMO.

I had no template of a good marriage and stability myself, I come from a family with all sorts of really awful issues, so I am perhaps prouder than most of what my husband and I have achieved together, I don’t take it for granted. When you come from chaos you appreciate stability, companionship, loyalty, truth and teamwork.

@zov, none of the women in my family from generations ago didn't have to worry about bills and mortgage payments. You honestly thing that because somebody else is covering it, it isn't a worry? Only if your husband earned a substantial wage.

All of the women in my family worked. None of them were rich enough to sit on their arses. You think my mother didn't have to worry about the arsehole boss who could LEGALLY fire her if her child was sick and she gave that as a reason for not coming in?

You think my grandmother never worried about paying the rent and bills when grandad was down the pub drinking his earnings? Bloody good job she worked because they'd have been homeless if she hadn't.

Honestly, I am so over people thinking they are the first generation of women to have to fucking work.

Famously, my own generation (x) were known as the 'latchkey veneration' because most of our boomer mothers worked. And they didn't all have grandma and grandpa down the road, my mother certainly didn't, which is why I was a latchkey kid myself.

Childcare? What was that? Didn't exist for a lot of mums, it was the teenager down the road, the neighbour or our older siblings. The government certainly wasn't coughing for it. We were very lucky our school had a nursery. Most didn't.

Our mothers worked. Our grandmothers worked. My grandmother still worked in her 70s. If yours didn't, you had a privilege that certainly wasn't everyone's.

Bollocks. I’m well educated, good job, good earning power, freedom, I can leave my husband if I want to with my own bank account and opportunity to buy a house. All my own choice. I can vote.
I wouldn’t want to have been in the position of any woman without the freedom to choose.

The following seems to be a constant, no matter the year or the subject: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.”― Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities

My mother worked. My grandmother worked. My great aunt at 6 years old was alone at home responsible for little siblings while her brother went to school. That was the reality of many!

I do agree with you in that if both are working the same hours, then logically both should share the unpaid work required to run a home and raise children. It is patently unfair if this is not the case.

Working class women have always worked. Either with their husbands on farms/in small businesses or later in factories as well. There wasn't a golden time where women didn't go out to work. Additionally, those who worked in the home did much harder physical labour without hoovers, washing machines etc etc.

The magical pre-feminist past you are dreaming of never existed. What did exist was women trapped in abusive or miserable marriages because divorce didn't exist and then was seen as shameful.

There's one helluva lot of nostalgia for an age that never existed going on on this thread isn't there?

@ObelixtheGaul its the fairy tale work of a minority of lucky and well off women. Working class or rural women had a really hard life (or women with abusive husbands - not that rate)

But raising children is important for society- albeit a choice. I wonder how long it will be before governments start to encourage more childbearing due to the complete decline in birth rates.

I have zero idea what you’re talking about.

working class women have always worked. It’s simply not been possible to carry an adult of working age for generations in my family and, frankly, the majority of others. My great-grandmother was still working in a hospital canteen when she died at 80, as she had down through the years she gave birth to her five children.

The concept of women staying home with children is a relatively new one - couple of hundred years old, arising from the emerging middle class, and never ever about women or children but simply a sign of status for middle class men.

What is different compared to the generations of women in my family who have worked whilst raising children is that unlike many of them, I can own property, get a credit card, and go to the police if my husband sexually assaults me.

Women who’d go back in time based on some nonsense trad wife TikTok or whatever it is they’ve been watching are fools.

Even the old hunter gatherer stories - a lot of emphasis on the big man being the hunter but it was the women who were doing the gathering and ensuring a base level of food was constantly available and prepared

women have always had to contribute and it’s really depressing that there’s a group of modern women who want to turn the clock back to a time that has been romanticised. Keep moving forward and whilst at it why don’t we try and lift up those women who aren’t as fortunate as us when it comes to rights

@PeonyPatch most women worked and raised children in the past. Housework was endless and backbreaking, women had very little time to play with their children.
The modern housewife with all technology has a very, very easy job in comparison.

Who “expects” them to pick up the slack? Their partners? If that’s the case then why don’t they leave their sexist partners? Why are they putting up with this sexist shit?

Yep. Nostalgia for an age that never existed is a big problem, not helped by bucolic television that presents this 'golden age' (particularly the 50s and usually American) where everyone lived in a leafy suburb, not only did the women not work, they were immaculately dressed and didn't have a hair out of place, the men were all good providers, dutiful wives soothed their brows after all they'd done all day was flick a duster around.

I've been saying this for years. Women have the illusion of "power" etc but in reality, things are different, rather than better. Working women now have to do even more, i.e. work as well as childcare/housework etc., as housing costs have risen so high, due to demand push inflation, i.e. because couples have more income (due to two workers), they can pay more for housing, and thus has caused the housing cost inflation (and other inflations), which mean that you now need two working people to pay for the same life style that you could afford on one wage a few decades ago.

You're absolutely right of course. That's actually very probably why I don't feel like that about it. Dh and I are both lucky to come from very stable families full of long-lasting marriages. When I say I don't feel proud about staying together, I suppose it's because it hasn't felt difficult to me, and it just feels like a normal trajectory. On reflection I can absolutely see why it fees like a wonderful achievement if you come from a difficult family background. You are very justified in feeling proud!

Mum (b1930s) worked in NHS, pubs, care homes.

Her mum (born 1900s) worked in shops.

Dad's mum (born 1900s) was in service.

Women have always worked and juggled. Feminism didn't cause it - economics did. Feminism made it easier in terms of rights.

I think the other reason it's hard to hear we didn't work (aside from the fact it's untrue) is that by perpetrating the myth, you are basically erasing our contributions. Past generations of women who've worked just as hard as men with skill and intelligence, who've made things, discovered things, taught people, cured people, served them, supported them. History already hides much of what we've done behind men who take the credit, and its galling to see women buying into the falsehood we were all just sitting at home living the life of Mrs Riley while the men did the stuff that gets remembered.

Let’s turn it around. At least you got 6 weeks. Because I’m adopted(as a baby), my mum got nothing, maybe she wasn’t happy to be working either to pay for your 6 weeks.

My parents never had a mortgage just rent, they never had one car let alone two, holidays didn't happen every year and would be a week in a caravan.

Oh and my mum always worked factory, shop, barmaid.

I hung out on ML for 13 weeks with my eldest. Was ready to go back earlier but nursery didn't accept younger.also the 90s. My DD managed 4 months after birth to return with her two. Their dad is very hands on

I have to disagree. Very many things are very much better indeed. Unless you think that it isn't better to:

• have laws against rape within marriage,
• have laws against firing women for being pregnant (OK, so employers wriggle out of that one, but that is a reason to come down harder, not to yearn for the bad old days)
• allow women to own property and manage their own financial affairs
• make it possible for women to leave abusive relationships
• have laws against sexual harrassment in the workplace
• enable women to develop their own skills and careers instead of being the default carer/housekeeper (and yes, men wriggle out of this, but that is a reason to stand up to inadequate men, not yearn for the bad old days)
• be able to not continue an unwanted pregnancy