To tell couple off in park?

[TLOAS]

Walking through the park this morning. It’s a lovely park with lots of woodland but big open grass area in the centre and home to lots of wildlife. The squirrels were running round this morning when I see one couple stopped with their dog who was pulling on the lead while looking at a squirrel. The couple, fully aware of this, lean down and upclip the lead and dog pelts at the squirrel.

I shout over, I say shout but it was a little windy and about 20ft away, and say why would you do that? They asked do what so I said “why would you purposely take the dog off the lead knowing it was going to chase the squirrel?” They shouted back some nonsense about it only being a squirrel and that their dog is only small and to mind my own business.

WIBU to tell them that the size of their dog doesn’t entitle them to purposely release it on a squirrel and terrorise wildlife?

Yes, was waiting for that.To be fair tho, no dead bodies at the church other than caused by sparrowhawks. The 3 cats there regularly seem to watch (and yes, am there every day).
The place is absolutely full of wildlife, as been feeding birds there for 9 years. It's a lovely little corner.

Yeah, in my fairly extensive experience of dogs, I have only known one (a very smart whippet) who could catch a squirrel. His owner just muzzled him in "squirrel season" and it wasn't a problem.

So highly unlikely that it would ever have caught the squirrel. The squirrel would not have come to harm. I have seen both squirrels and hares "play with" or "tease" dogs (and a hare once raced me on a horse - the hare won); Unless it's a pack I don't imagine it bothers them over-much (Disclaimer: I would not let my dogs off the lead specifically to chase squirrels, but nor would I be unduly concerned if they did chase one).

Presumably it was a grey squirrel - just a rat with a bushy tail. In essence they are vermin. There's a big difference between dogs chasing squirrels and dogs chasing swans or other birds. Though I wouldn't fancy the chances of many dogs against an adult swan.

Was there a sign saying that all dogs must be on a lead at all times? If so, then aYANBU but if there wasn’t, then YABVU.

No dead bodies that you know of.

True in my experience. My medium-sized, laid-back old pointer was routinely harassed by our neighbour's fluffy rat-like tiny dog. Our dog would be minding her own business in our garden, and it would squeeze through the hedge to have a go at her. One time they were walking past and picked it up as it started yapping at our dog, but it jumped out of the woman's arms and came barrelling in anyway. They never apologized and thought it was cute and "just being friendly."

Logical fallacy argument called "whataboutism".

An example might be :

A guy kills someone in the street. On judgement the judge says "you must be punished because you killed someone".

The murderer says, "yeah, but what about the thousands of people are killed in wars everyday - you should let me off".

Does the murderers argument have any merit at all ?

The issue here is both issues should be judged on their own merits, not justified on the basis of one another.

This, but it will never happen, too many lazy dog owners around. My autistic kids are greatly affected by it , sometimes I cant get them to go and enjoy the park due to the anxiety over all the dogs off leads.

I don't think that one was whataboutism really.

PP said so many people think it's funny to allow their dogs to run in there, chasing the squirrels, birds and neighbourhood cats while they wait at the entrance. It's really not good for the wildlife

Lumping domestic cats in the the wildlife the dogs are supposedly terrorising when the domestic cats are likely in there doing the same thing.

Of course, I know nothing. After all, am there every day, of course I don't know what am seeing or talking about, however you do, pretty amazing as am 100% certain you've never been there.

Bloody mumsnet. Argue the toss just for the sake of it.

No, just a clear case of double standard of PP.

My dog chases squirrels up trees where they sit and literally chatter/laugh at her as she circles the tree trying to figure out where the heck they have gone. Its hilarious. She never goes after anything else though, in fact she gets most confused when we are walking through fields and the cattle or sheep follow us to the gate .

Well said.

And, if going down that route, I'd like to point out that more harm to wildlife, all wildlife and has been for as long as can think, is and has been caused by humans.

More wildlife is killed by humans every year than cats... all the cats put together.

Mine "chases" crows that are airborne and miles above him. He is dumb as a box of hair.

No, I'm just pointing out your double standards.

You are happy for the cats to kill and maim, but heaven forbid a dog has a bit of fun chasing a squirrel he has no chance of catching.

Dogs dont need to catch other animals to cause distress. Sheep worrying in the spring? Miscarried sheep?

Never had double standards. Think you need to learn about what that means.

If I could stop cats (even though they don't) chasing wildlife there I would. However, they don't tend to come out with owners in order to have a word with.

There you go.

Does this rule apply if you see a grown adult letting their dog shit on the pavement? A grown adult parking their car across your driveway? A grown adult hitting a child in public? You say nothing because they’re an adult?

Of course!

Let the cats kill and tell off the dog owners.

No double standards there, oh no.

That poster said people are deliberately letting their dogs off to chase squirrels etc. so the only way this is double standards would be if someone carries their cat there and deliberately lets them chase the birds and pp didnt have a problem with that.

Lol, couldn't argue yourself out of a paper bag.

No, you're quite right, they don't. But we are not talking about sheep, are we? Or ground nesting birds. We're talking about squirrels. So the question is whether or not harm is caused to squirrels by being chased. And I would say that if there is no lasting harm caused by distress, if the squirrel is distressed (of which I am not convinced) then arguably it's not a massive problem.

I do often wonder how fragile people imagine wildlife is in order for it to be significantly impacted by evading domestic pets. While there is reams of scientific research on the damage cats do - largely through killing wildlife - there is very little scientific research on the impact of non-fatal dog behaviour on wildlife.

Again, I reiterate, that I do everything I consider reasonable in order to ensure that my dogs do not impact wild or domesticated animals - they will be on a lead long before we are close to any domesticated animals, I do not walk them in ground nesting bird areas in nesting season, and when I walk my Mum's weimaraner, which is capable of chasing and bringing down a deer, I keep him on a lead. But that doesn't mean that I give any credence to the idea that we will need to be setting up group therapy for squirrels that have survived being chased to a tree by a dog that was never close to catching them in the first place.

I find people who think animals chasing other animals is 'fun' a bit odd too.

Dog likes to chase things? Take a ball.

Are you telling me that all the cats out there killing birds and baby squirrels are out without the knowledge of their owners?

Cat owners know their cats kill yet they still let them out instead of keeping them in.

And yet the three cats at the church, of which you accused me of having double standards don't hurt the wildlife there.
So are you widening your net now to try and make a point. Any more 'whataboutery' in response to my original post?

If want to go down the route of whataboutery, perhaps humans should be kept in. We cause more harm than cats and dogs to wildlife.