Dd s boyfriend wants a pre nup .

[Velveteenrabbitt]

dd had been with her bf since uni - he has several investments and earns 85 k plus massive bonuses and his earnings will increase. She earns 32k

They are buying a house together and she is investing 30% of deposit , he 70% . Has he has more money.
They told me y day that he wants a pre nup when they get married.
I must admit I was very shocked as I assumed marriage to be a ‘ we situation’ and everything is shared as in the good and the bad - and why would money be the only thing not shared ?

I spoke to him about it as he told me that his mates just dont get it . He says that its because he has seen some married men lose their home And end up in rented if the couple split up and the man ends up worse off mostly, he wants to make sure that If anything happened its not like that .
The mortgage but also it will be not what i assumed in that it will be - joint ownership - but that he gives 70% contributions to deposit and mortgage payments, and she gives 30 % and that will be reflected too .

We are giving dd part of her deposit. The solicitor says that this is classed as a gift and is paid when the mortgage commences.

dd says that initially she was upset and insulted , but now she understands what he means she is ok with it .

I understand that she will need a solicitor for her part of the pre nup.?
I remain anxious about this - it does not feel normal ?

How can i address this with sensitivity with dd without isolating her from us ?

Ive said to him it needs to be fair and in the marriage would be uneasy if dd had to buy cheap clothes for eg and him with more income had much more spending money.. he said that - what people don't see is he does treat her - and he is generous- but again thats in his control .

He comes from quite a deprived background and I think part of this may be anxiety as he has worked very very hard .

I don't want to interfere , dd adult, but also our dd.I am aware we may need to tread carefully here am looking for balanced support and i want to stay measured about this and calm etc.

OP You have very little influence for his decisions, however you may be able to influence DD - Why is her salary so much lower than his? The reason I ask is that thankfully I have always been self sufficient financially, when married and now divorced. So I will never have to stay in an unhappy relationship due to being financially stuck. This is what I would recommend your DD focus on - building a career and financials herself so if the worst was to happen, she will be able to walk away, knowing she can support herself.

Pregnant they're not even engaged? 50% of marriages end in divorce and living together rates are even higher.

I find it weird that people are constantly banging on about how people who are married should have joint finances, no separate bank accounts everything shared - except, and only, when the man makes a lot of money. It's so weird.

Very sensible of him.

I would add that if he's this concerned, she should really clarify how he sees things owrking financially longer term, BEFORE she marries him. So, for example, is he happy to continue with a split based on earnings, including taking on the bulk of the costs while she is on maternity leave and/or has to adjust working hours/career to manage childcare? That INCLUDES providing her with an income if necessary so that she can afford basic things like getting a hair cut or buying new clothes.

Similarly, how will the cost of child related costs be managed? She neesd to be sure he's not going to be one of those men who will say that she must pay the childcare or for days out with the DC etc.

How will larger purchases and expenses being split. Even if they're payinf or things proportionally, if he wants to go on expensive holidays, will that be coered by him as even a 40% cost fo rher would be hugely detrimental to her overall financial earnings?

In my experience, there are a lot of men who worry about this. they hear "horror" stories from their friends and get themselves into a state about it. But often, they're not intrinsically bad people, they just haven't thought about it before. If he's a good person, when these things are raised, he'll understand. If he's not, she should know now, before sh emarries him.

Think about it the other way round. I have been burnt by the rules that recognise that contribution to a marriage is not just financial. However there can be circumstances when the other party takes both money and emotional well being. Make sure she understands all the implications of marriage, it is a legal contract.
(speaking as someone who will have to give a mid 6 figure sum to my late husband's children despite him contributing nothing)
Editied to add, I appreciate how fortunate I am that I can do that, and money does not make up for the trauma my husband's children will have experienced.

He’s very sensible. But if I was him I simply wouldn’t get married.

They could instead own the house as tenants in common instead of joint tenants. But in that case she'd be wise to never contribute more than 30% of costs at any time regardless of what she earns in the future.

I started off as the lower earner at 26, DH is five years older than me. But in the private sector as a lawyer quickly surpassed DH in the public sector as a civil servant. We are joint tenants and have no pre-nup.

Where I’m from pre-nups can (and are) legally binding (as long as the necessary legal limits re content, the procedural legalities etc. are all properly observed). So this is my perspective on this:

A contract should benefit both (or all) parties involved.

Party A therefore should not agree to a contract that only protects Party B. That is non-sensical, completely one-sided and not a particularly auspicious start to a marriage (imo).

Which is why your DD needs her own attorney (absolutely not joint representation or simply being advised by her fiancé’s attorney). She and her fiancé (who decided to emphasise the economic aspects of marriage) ought to compare this to a joint venture agreement. They’re merging their assets and financial futures and both need to be protected.

If it was the other way round I’m sure you would say your DD was being sensible?

I have no issue and I’ve said the same to my DH, we are saving to help gift our child a house deposit (25-50k), I would want that protected if they brought a joint house for sure.

I know someone that got married and said if they divorced she would take him for everything the pre nup was just words and ment nothing.
She got a divorce and nothing else she was not happy.
I think hes sensible tbvh smart man.

If i was to get married or any of my children i would want them to protect themselves.
Why lose half of everything in a divorce when the person didn't help get it in the first place.

What are the main reasons divorce happens? Make a plan to avoid them?

Yes when people bleat on about this is what equality means they always neglect to mention the motherhood penalty.

op, you daughter should also discuss at length what happens if they have a child. Every single element of it. Finance, pension, less opportunity to earn more due to parenting responsibilities. Will it all be equal? Or will he expect her to do it all as she earns less?

It is not just about finances though is it? Will she be expected to take on more of the housework and domestic load because he has a better paying job? How will that impact on her energy to improve her financial position?

I can kinda see it both ways and if its done in the best interests then i dont see it as a bad thing tbh.

The guy is bringing a whole lot more to the START of this marriage and i dont think he is being anything other than honest and protecting what he has already BEFORE the start of the marriage.

However, i also believe that getting married is a partnership and from that point onwards all income is equally theirs to share. Its just how i have always lived. It stops financial inequality and manipulation.

Im not sure how this can be translated into a prenup but i dont think the man is necessarily doing anything wrong. But i also believe that once they get into the marriage then he gives up any right to what is his and hers, its theirs.

Maybe i put more value on what it means to be married.

Op, I think the bf is being very sensible.

I have a ds and he will have a lot of property. I’ve already advised him not to get married. Either that or I will put my properties in a company. Especially if the dgf is the poorer of the pair.

It’s not romantic it’s sensible and as MN love to say marriage is a financial contract.

incidentally my dh lost his house in a divorce and would hate for that to happen to ds.

If you were giving your Dd money that meant she paid 70% of the deposit and she out earned her DH to be I would be strongly advising that they buy the house as Tenants In Common with a Deed protecting her deposit as a % .

This is simple to do.

A third of marriages end in divorce. Until (and if) your Dd compromises her own earnings, savings and pension for childbearing why shouldn’t her Dp protect his assets? Marriage is a legal and financial contract and contracts are the back pocket protection for when things go wrong.

I hope that your DD’s partner is not expecting to own 70% of the whole of the property if she is paying 50% of the mortgage for the mortgaged part of the value?

Im with him in this. If he is putting in most of the money its fair he takes that back at the end. What your daughter should do is protect herself in it. If she is to give up time at work then that should be compensated for

He probably won't.

This. I haven’ read the full thread yet, so apologies to any others also reiterating the point about children.

I largely feel that between able bodied adults, financial arrangements are simply a question of mutual preference. The only issue would be that your DD not feel pressured or coerced. If finances are separate and especially if there is a prenup, she also needs private savings.

But I am continually shocked by the number of MumsNetters who are funding their DC with limited contributions from DH. Sometimes this seems to leave them barely able to clothe themselves, while ‘D’H has plenty of money for expensive cars, hobbies, etc.

No! Your DC are a joint undertaking and deserve the mutual financial support of their parents. A decent standard of living for all family members comes before indulgences.

All the people saying well done him - would you be saying that to a woman who after 20 years of marriage has a husband walk out on her. After she has held back in her career so he could prioritize his, looked after the home, raised the kids etc? Well done him, he protected himself and she is only going to get 30% and have to start again in her 40s/50s (the peak age for divorce). He, as the higher earner, will walk away in comfort, while she lives in penury.

If the mother in law to be is already making a thread about him.
His money what he owns etc it dont sound like its going to last.
If i was him id be running.

These are excellent questions.

Yes, because she would’ve made foolish decisions. Nobody has to prioritise their husbands career or take on the lion’s share of the childcare. Any sensible woman would insist it’s equally shared. Protect yourself first and foremost, that goes for women too.

100% this. said much more clearly and succinctly than I said it earlier.

It's fine. But she must ALSO be protected, and her contributions recognised. As must any future children.