Dd s boyfriend wants a pre nup .

[Velveteenrabbitt]

dd had been with her bf since uni - he has several investments and earns 85 k plus massive bonuses and his earnings will increase. She earns 32k

They are buying a house together and she is investing 30% of deposit , he 70% . Has he has more money.
They told me y day that he wants a pre nup when they get married.
I must admit I was very shocked as I assumed marriage to be a ‘ we situation’ and everything is shared as in the good and the bad - and why would money be the only thing not shared ?

I spoke to him about it as he told me that his mates just dont get it . He says that its because he has seen some married men lose their home And end up in rented if the couple split up and the man ends up worse off mostly, he wants to make sure that If anything happened its not like that .
The mortgage but also it will be not what i assumed in that it will be - joint ownership - but that he gives 70% contributions to deposit and mortgage payments, and she gives 30 % and that will be reflected too .

We are giving dd part of her deposit. The solicitor says that this is classed as a gift and is paid when the mortgage commences.

dd says that initially she was upset and insulted , but now she understands what he means she is ok with it .

I understand that she will need a solicitor for her part of the pre nup.?
I remain anxious about this - it does not feel normal ?

How can i address this with sensitivity with dd without isolating her from us ?

Ive said to him it needs to be fair and in the marriage would be uneasy if dd had to buy cheap clothes for eg and him with more income had much more spending money.. he said that - what people don't see is he does treat her - and he is generous- but again thats in his control .

He comes from quite a deprived background and I think part of this may be anxiety as he has worked very very hard .

I don't want to interfere , dd adult, but also our dd.I am aware we may need to tread carefully here am looking for balanced support and i want to stay measured about this and calm etc.

this is really sensible they are having these conversations before getting engaged, rather than getting swept up in the romance and pressure of impending wedding date and pushing them to the side.
marriage is a legal contract with huge financial implications and everyone needs to know what they are signing up to, and what will happen if someone elects to end this contract. if he was my son i'd be happy he was protecting himself, what if she decides to have an affair and leave him? equally, what if he does the same, she wants to ensure she is protected?
they need to talk about children and maternity leave - if she takes unpaid time off for children, or goes part time, will he pay into savings for her? pension? if not, then half his pension is at stake.

the alternative is that he doesnt propose and then your daughter is an unmarried mum with no legal protections at all. fine but what if she wants to leave him but is stuck?

None of this screams red flag - it sounds like he knows from experience (a) how important money can be not just in protecting himself but also in allowing him to look after those he cares about and (b) how much hard work often goes into getting that money. As others have said - pre-nups are not necessarily bad, even for the weaker party, especially given how often the weaker party doesn’t actually get all their “rights” under the law because the cost of pursuing it is out of their reach. They tend to only be binding when (a) they are fair (ie largely consistent with existing divorce law), and (b) both sides have been clearly advised by competent professionals. Just make sure you think her lawyer is good.

Houseleeks
when he discussed it with me yesterday , I pointed out that the woman often stays in the home FOR the benefit of the dc . And that this stops at 18 .

i also think it is a good idea for couples to formally protect the assets they enter the relationship with. e.g. the house deposits. however, once they are a married couple the rest of the house would be a shared asset.

That says it all really... 40% is a very high percentage for your daughter to pay, considering his salary and 'huge' bonuses. Why isn't it split to more accurately reflect their salaries?
So many red flags here.... sounds like he is very controlling and sees nothing wrong in this. Tell your daughter to run now, or at least do a lot more talking about all the long term consequences, especially with children and maternity leave, and everyday control throughout the marriage.

I don't think a pre nup is bad in principle but it needs to grow with the marriage. So if they divorce after <5 years with no children that's one outcome, but if after 20 years of marriage and/or children then a different outcome needs to be agreed. The longer they are together and the more children they have then the more equitable it needs to be. In fact any children need to invalidate any 70/30 type agreement. And PP made a good point about infidelity and DA. She needs to be protected in the event that he cheats or abuses her so that she doesn't feel obliged to stay for financial protection.

If OPs daughter had her bf's salary/bonuses and investments (instead of the other way around) she would very likely be able to have a comfortable maternity leave and not take big hit in terms of progression. By the time you've got to a place where you earn 85k and bonuses, you've pretty much established yourself in your field. With a 32k salary to start with, yes, she will take a big hit if/when she has children. Trying to fight for his money gives gold digger vibes esp. as her own salary is good but nothing to write home about. She needs advise from a good solicitor and she also needs to reassess the relationship and decide if this is the sort of marriage she wants. Maybe her bf should find someone like himself. Where they both bring in equal money and investments and they are both happy to ring-fence their pots and contribute equally.

I did actually, and it was fine. We planned for the event beforehand and managed our (joint) finances sensibly. Much later on, he 'provided' while I did a late degree and later still, I 'provided' while he undertook 3 years of full-time training.

Inheritance is not automatically treated as a matrimonial asset.

She will be enabling him to earn that money and also actually helping him by being the main parent and also his career will prioritise hers to the detriment!!! Courts take this kind of thing into account in divorce where the mum being home with the kids and doing all the mental load and physical load at work has allowed dad to climb up the career ladder and then when they split up and she has a menial job to fit around the kids and their lives and husbands job she realises just how much she’s given up for him and he’s now quids in with lots of savings and pensions!!

By the time you've got to a place where you earn 85k and bonuses, you've pretty much established yourself in your field.

In City circles this could be a beginners wage.

He’s discussing it with you to hopefully get you on side but I doubt he will change. your DD should think carefully about a future where he’s already putting your DD at disadvantage. He has the means to be generous but your posts have not really shown that. I would argue the opposite. He’s being clever with planning unequal future he’s always going to be in a much stronger position and kids won’t change that.

Protecting their deposits is sensible but I would be nervous if they have children and they split up she only get 30 per cent or even day to day expenses he expect your daughter to split as if they were single.

My sister earns much more than her fiancé , and owns her existing flat outright, and they are drafting a prenup. It protects both of them, eg the idea that sis will buy him out if they buy a house together and then split up. It’s in Scotland where apparently assets you bring to the marriage stay yours , and things after the marriage are held in common and are split evenly
it seems very sensible. They’re deeply in love and have no intention of splitting up but better to have things down in writing when you are on good terms than waiting til the wheels might have fallen off

This

He already doesn’t see her as an equal partner

His friends don’t get it because firstly, in the UK, a prenup isn’t the guarantee he thinks it is. Also whilst he might earn well, he isn’t exactly Mr Moneybags. One hit in the stock market and the company he works for will be issuing P45s
He is PAYE so nothing is set in stone and he isn’t exactly master of his own destiny

His carefully constructed life could fall apart and he doesn’t have the money to sustain it

Marriage is a partnership. If he already doesn’t see your dd as an equal partner then this has red flags flying all over it

What he doesn’t see or isn’t planning on is the long term ups and downs of married life.

What happens if he suddenly can’t provide the 70% of their household income. What happens if she can’t provide the 30% of household income. Life is not set in stone that he will always be the higher earner.

He might have seen his friends going into rented on divorce but does he see any of these men looking after the children f/t or does he just see that they are in rented and giving a portion of money to their ex’s to look after dc.

The courts are very fair when it comes to divorce. Everything is on the table and the starting point is 50/50.

Obviously the person who will be primary carer will be compensated for the impact of looking after dc the majority of time.

My friend did get the family home and her ex was telling everyone how terrible it was. How he was left in a rented flat.

What they didn’t see was he still owned a business, he owned outright a house and a flat, both rented out producing a good income and he had a 6 figure chunk of money in the bank.

He needs to do some growing up and get a significant amount of money behind him before he starts throwing around pre nups

But your sister started with significantly more than her dh.

This guy doesn’t own anything apart from a bit of savings and investments and they could end up going if he gets made redundant/company goes under.

I can see both sides. YANBU to think it’s not the romantic partnering up for life situation that a marriage should be but he INBU to protect himself. I have seen too many women decide to leave their marriages, and do so, to think he’s BU. Putting myself in your DD’s shoes, I think it might be a dealbreaker but maybe they are both pragmatic. They need to decide how things would go if DD gives up or compromises her career for a family, though.

I earn around 1/2 that and I am on a zero hours minimum wage contract with no qualifications

She needs to get independent legal advice. Not go on discussions and feelings. She needs to protect herself from him and make sure that there financial provisions for time off work, career breaks for kids etc.

a pre-nup for someone on 85k is a bit ridiculous I can’t lie

It seems sensible. It was the other way around I’d want my daughter to be protected as well.

It doesn’t mean there’s any less love, it’s just being pragmatic about the ins and outs of a marriage.

assume youd expect the same of "female" partner for if shes abusive or cheats....its not just men that do it.

Please urge her to get married before she has kids and becomes more reliant on him financially.

Given the terms of this prenup I think she would be better off staying single.

Let him buy the house and she will invest what would have been her deposit in other things. She pays nothing for the upkeep. (Paying towards the bills and mortgage would give her rights if they split up and he wouldn’t want that) And then she has her whole salary to save and invest.

@CactusPat exactly! Just hard to get away from that really.

What happens if she doesn’t sign the pre nup?