sending my DS to a waldorf rather than montessori nursery

[motheroflittledragon]

DS is now 18 months and while he has been the apple of my eye we are looking into sending him to nursery for 2 half days a week. We are still undecided if morning or afternoon works better for us. This is to socialise him as we have picked up on him being on the very shy side who struggles to interact with the other children when we take him to soft play. he is never mean or anything but he has a tendency to ignore them or stand to the side.

i really wanted to send him to a montessori nursery. having trained as a montessori teacher for the ages 3-6 i really see how the materials not only teach independence but also focus. of course i do know it is not a one size fits all.

here is the problem. i don’t drive so in that aspect am fully reliant on DH. i have tried to learn in the past but was told by my instructor i am unfortunately not suitable. the nearest montessori nursery is 30 minutes away but will probably be more during rush hour. there is a waldorf forest school near us which is realistically probably going to be the one we will have to sending him too. i do know it is very popular too but to me having experience with the montessori method it just seems so unstructured and i worry he will not be as advanced as he might have been with a montessori nursery and that they won’t be getting his full potential out of him. my friend did say that i could do montessori at home and waldorf at nursery but i really feel like i will need to focus even more on the materials we have at home which is more focus on top of it pretty much being on me to teach him mandarin as we have gone nc with my mother and i already feel at a mental exhaustion.

can someone just please tell me i am over thinking all this 😭

That sounds really hard, I'm so sorry. It's great you are protecting your DS. And he will he totally fine! My DS went to a forest school and loved it. It allowed him to get used to socialising in a calmer outdoor environment which was really good for him. Nurseries, even montessori ones, can be really loud. And he learned plenty- he could even point out slime mould which I though was very cool. Forest schools are really special and have major advantages over indoor settings. Kids don't get sick quite as much either! Only downside in my eyes is you have to spend more on outdoor clothes for your DS! (They are expensive) Highly recommend spending on the waterproof layers then getting insulating layers like wool underwear and a mini puffer jacket second hand). If he goes to the nearby nursery your DS would also benefit from having a calmer DM who doesn't have to worry about transport each day. He will be great!

That sounds really hard, I'm so sorry. It's great you are protecting your DS. And he will he totally fine! My DS went to a forest school and loved it. It allowed him to get used to socialising in a calmer outdoor environment which was really good for him. Nurseries, even montessori ones, can be really loud. And he learned plenty- he could even point out slime mould which I though was very cool. Forest schools are really special and have major advantages over indoor settings. Kids don't get sick quite as much either! Only downside in my eyes is you have to spend more on outdoor clothes for your DS! (They are expensive) Highly recommend spending on the waterproof layers then getting insulating layers like wool underwear and a mini puffer jacket second hand). If he goes to the nearby nursery your DS would also benefit from having a calmer DM who doesn't have to worry about transport each day. He will be great!

You want to do the very best for your 18 month old child. Socialising is great, but if you dont need to send him to nursery yet, then i wouldn't.

i'd suggest starting by having play dates at home or at friends homes. If your child doesn't have friends yet, go to mum and tot type groups so he can make friends

Once your child is 3 or 3 and a half try him at a nursery type setting nearest to you, so you can walk there. Don't worry about whether it's montessori. See how he gets on. After a few sessions, if it's not working out, try another nursery within walking distance.

You're obviously limited in choice because you can't drive.

Try not to stress. Enjoy this time with your child. Please trust me, that is super important

You can’t get to the Montessori nursery so you can’t worry about whether he should go there or not.

My own children are not white. I wouldn’t send them to a wardolf Steiner institution because he was a big old racist.

I would say that how you are personally will massively influence your son. You could ensure he is incredibly advanced but you being anxious and worrying a lot will impact him as well. Being clever doesn’t mean life will be easy. One of my children has a slight learning difficulty, the other is a steady average all rounder. I did so much with both of them growing up and still do. What I have found is that what they lack in academics they make up for socially. Children need to be shaped by you but you are putting too much emphasis on him being an academic genius, yet you aren’t keen to push yourself to overcome your fears and drive.

As we’re not white and we’re not racist a SW nursery would be a big no for us, but if you’re happy with racism go ahead I guess. As for Mandarin, I’m not sure why thats a big effort, ours speak Urdu because I just speak Urdu, no effort or work involnved beyond talking.

thank you so much. i was unaware of the racist aspects as i am unfamiliar with it philosophy beyond the surface level but certainly will look more into that. i suppose it is the mental pressure with myself as i am the only one speaking to it with him. my mother was slightly more relaxed in that aspect i suppose feeling comfortable dropping the occasional german word where i feel the need to be militant so am forever saying everything twice once in mandarin for ds and once for the people around us or having to google words in mandarin though i am fluent because my mother used the german word or mentally having to read the book in english see the words in english but then say what the book is saying in mandarin etc. i know it sounds silly but it can get exhausting mentally at times

You sound overwhelmed to me.

Just talk to your son in mandarin when it’s just the two of you or when you are with your husband but he doesn’t need to be in on the conversation. ‘Put your arm in your coat please’.

I really wouldn’t send a child to a WS school. It’s not just the founders views and philosophy. It’s the staff and parents who are willing to work there or send their children there.

Do you have to send your son to nursery or are you looking at it from an educational point of view?

I'm a Speech Therapist. I would encourage you to relax a bit. It is brilliant you are speaking to him in Mandarin, but it is ok if he hears the occasional English word. Having that 1:1 quality interaction is the most important. If you get too caught up in finding the right vocabulary, it will slow down your responses. I would also tell other people you will translate any 'adult' talk but not if you are just telling him to wash his hands or similar, as it does sound exhausting.

At 18m it is quite normal to just play alongside other children. They often don't properly play together until age 3. I would look for somewhere he is happy. Settling in can be hard when they don't go much and are used to being at home with you, so be guided on where he feels comfortable. Under 3, nursery tends to be 'neutral' i.e. no real benefit compared to being at home. It sounds like there are wider benefits e.g. giving you a break and meeting others in your local community, but don't put too much pressure on yourself about choosing. If you pick somewhere miles away, you will lose those wider benefits and it's probably not worth it.

The earlier you introduce different languages to a child the better - I have children in my school who speak 3 languages fluently, English in school, Urdu at home and Arabic at Mosque.

i had not intended to send him so soon but feel like he needs more opportunities to socialise. a close friend suggested nursery as with me being removed as a play option he will be encouraged to interact with others out of necessity. we do arrange play dates with his cousins that are 9 months older and younger then him.

i tried taking him to toddler football thinking it would be a fun activity for him to try but after the trial session saw he was clearly not ready yet with him showing more interest in the switches and floor mats then joining in. i would just like him to start to feel more comfortable around other children but do realise that myself and dh are not exactly extroverts either 😂🤣😂

@motheroflittledragon loads of people on here have told you your expectations are a little unrealistic and it is perfectly normal at that age to not be "sociable".

thank you so much for this. watching some selective cartoons and videos in mandarin has helped. i will try work on feeling comfortable enough to just say it to DS i just worry that others might feel excluded.

i did mentally berate myself he is now picking up the colours in english first and felt i had not done enough but DH was good and explained that realistically that was always going to be the case with me speaking both English and mandarin at home a very different set up to my mother who having separated from my father was able to speak exclusively in mandarin

I think you should pop him in the forest school, buy him a whole box of lurid-coloured plastic dinosaurs and stop thinking about it so much.

OP, I mean this very kindly but if you want him to develop to be confident, you're going to the wrong way about it.

A few things to think about:

• Children this age usually engage in parallel play alongside each other and often prefer to play by themselves or interact with adults. This is not unusual.
• As he grows, the best thing you can do for his confidence and social skills is give him plenty of unstructured play time with other children (at nursery/with friends/in playgrounds) where you gently 'scaffold' his social skills. Teach him to say 'can you play with me?', to join in the game, to accept rejection gracefully when it happens.
• He will do best with a happy, chilled out mum who doesn't put unreasonable expectations on him or or herself. Don't even think of doing a stressful commute every day to the Montessori nursery! That's a waste of time and a level of stress you can be doing without in your lives.
• Forest school will offer a lot of unstructured play with other children, but also many opportunities for physical development. Children who have a good level of physical skills for their age tend to be more confident than those who do not ime.

HTH.

i know and i do appreciate that i just also feel he probably needs more then 2 hours of soft play a week

I think it undermines the conscious parenting effort of multilingual parents to say 'just speak to him'. Of course speak to him, but it's much harder work if only one adult around the child uses certain language fluently, it reduces the benefits of immersive learning.

What is your priority, OP? Because from what you're saying, it's sending your child to a Montessori nursery - great. Helping his social development - great. Exposing him to your culture - great. Putting pressure on him to be academically brilliant - definitely not great and it sounds like you've had it forced upon you which contributed to the way you are now. You need to recognise this and work on yourself, there are no shortcuts here.

What you are actually doing though does not in any way align with what you appear to want for him. You tried therapy, but with no success so you came back into your anxiety bubble and now you're defensive when many of us pointed this out. Your child will soak up your anxiety which shines through everything you posted on here - and no doubt through your behaviour towards him. This is far more damaging than you can imagine. I think you're not fully understanding the damage that has been done to you. Once you do, you'll also truly understand why you need to break the cycle.

In 2-3 years time you won't be able to take him to extracurricular activities that would suit him best, unless you're in central London. In fact you are probably already limited in baby and toddler groups and in outdoor activities you can take him to. Do you have any mum friends? Do they live nearby? What kind of socialisation do you offer to your son?

If linguistic immersion is important to you then you won't achieve it by being the only speaker and sending your child to a British childcare placement at the same time, that's contradictory. If that's your priority then he either stays with you full time and you speak full time, or you send him to childcare part time and up his exposure amongst other Mandarin speakers - again, any local mums with children? International schools going forward? Social groups with Mandarin speakers? If this is not your key priority then do your best yourself exposure wise and move forward, you have no control over how good he'll be, accept it and focus on prioritising other things if that's right for him.

He doesn't need to be a copy of you. This is not the goal. He's his own person and dare I say it, he might not be very smart - and you as a parent need to support him regardless. It's too early to say how smart he is going to be and what his strengths and weaknesses will be and that's not something that you can control, only support.

I understand people commenting about Waldorf, but this is dating back over 10 years now. Many things have changed since, as acknowledged by Waldorf and I personally don't think I'd be overly concerned about a couple of days a week in a Waldorf forest school. Forest schools, nature and learning through free, outdoor play are excellent activities for toddler development which you appear to underestimate because of your own upbringing. Again, there are more ways to live and learn than one that can be beneficial, there's no need to be so rigid.

In conclusion, you are trying to square a peg, you know what you want for him but you can't achieve this. You're then looking for second best but you're not even truly open or appreciative of it. If you don't remove obstacles and preconceptions existing in your own head, you'll have these dilemmas all your parenting life and it's no way to be, you'll burn out very quickly.

See if there is another option near you that isn’t Waldorf. The religious underpinning is deeply problematic, not just because of the racism but also attitudes to disability, bullying and more. It isn’t at all like Montessori.

Or are there any drop-in playgroups?

Just go to the closest good nursery, that is practical to get him to. He will be fine.
Loads of kids wouldn’t socialise with kids they don’t know at soft play, so I wouldn’t worry about that too much.
Maybe doing a few small groups like a music group might be good for friendships to develop, rather than soft play.
Take a deep breath and don’t overthink it, you sound like a good caring mum.

Your husband gave good advice! It's great he is starting to know his colours. If he holds up a brick and says 'blue' you can reply 'yes blue' in Mandarin. You are still praising him but also giving the Mandarin word.

I also think you need to give yourself more credit! At 18m, it is absolutely normal that you are his safe space and number 1 person. He will learn the most from you. It is good to give him opportunities to be around other children but don't worry if it takes him a bit longer to feel comfortable. There is also no rush, he is still tiny.

I have 2 DC. My eldest was always pretty sociable and still prefers having a friend to play with. My youngest was less interested. He went to nursery at 3. Before that, he would play with his sister's friends on play dates, but didn't really have friends of his own. In nursery he played fine with other children but was more interested in the toys. To be honest he probably would have been just as happy (maybe more so!) if they had all gone off and left him to build his marble run in peace! He is now 7, has friends and plays well with other children, although he is still happy in his own company a lot of the time.

“Not suitable” to learn to drive?

Yet qualified to teach children?

Really?

@GrooveArmada
You are wrong about the language side of things. Loads of children become successfully bilingual by one parent consistently talking to them in their natuve language while they are exposed to another language at nursery/in the wider world. Obviously OP wants the child to be exposed to English as well if growing up in England! She can also add extra stuff in Mandarin like books, tv shows, Mandarin speaker groups but OPOL works even if there's no other input.

OP you are definitely overthinking the nursery thing. He doesn't need to go to nursery at all at this age if you don't need it for childcare. None of mine started before 2.5 years. At 18 months they never really interact with other kids. There's plenty of time.

If you want him to go to nursery, go for one which is convenient for you. As long as he is safe and happy the 'curriculum' doesn't matter.

i have gotten in touch with the local chinese centre but unfortunately he would still be way too young to join them

i do try keep my anxiety to a minimum especially around DS but i do know i need to work on myself

unfortunately moving away from here is not a option as it is close to DH family that are our support network and i do want him to grow up close with his cousins as it can be a lovely bond. i have come to terms with unfortunately how fluent he will be due to the choices and circumstances i have but i at least have wanted to try my best. i do appreciate all the feedback i have gotten

18 months is too young to benefit from nursery, wait til he's 3. I bet the decision will seem a lot easier then too.

I've studied child development. Waldorf and forest schools are great. The overarching principles of both are really quite similar, both holistic and child led, but Waldorf is more imaginative and less risk averse but focuses less on fine motor skills. Tbh, outdoors your child will develop plenty fine motor skills anyway. Even playing with sticks can involve a young brain doing complicated maths- break a stick and it's in halves, which half is bigger? Are they bigger than the whole? Brings in interesting concepts and is just a small example.

You could do more focused activities at home- baking is a good option and easy!

If you want him to learn Mandarin then speak it to him now, exclusively if you can. Play radio/audiobooks in mandarin - talk radio is great because it is conversation. Even if he can't go to classes at the Chinese centre do they have a playgroup? If there is a Chinese centre there must be enough of a population to warrant a playgroup separately or meet ups for mums and babies - even if you say nothing he will hear the others. Take him to restaurants and cafés where Mandarin speakers are.