To feel that not everyone is capable of “more”

[Kunitz]

Following a conversation with a friend and hearing her very strong opinions on how basically everyone is capable of bettering themselves it got me thinking. So I (rather stupidly on reflection) confessed to her how anxious I was feeling about the future specifically with regards to my “benefits” stopping in a couple of years when my ds leaves school. Now before I get jumped on for daring to confess I claim benefits let me add that I work part time and my dh works full time. The majority of the money we receive is due to the fact our ds has autism and receives DLA. I also have adhd and autism plus other conditions however I have never attempted to claim pip for myself as I know I will not get it and can’t bare to put myself through the ordeal.

So, like I said I work, as does my dh. DH hasn’t been diagnosed with anything other than dyslexia as a child but it is clear to us and quite frankly anyone who knows him that he is in the spectrum. He is a lovely man an amazing father I really couldn’t ask for more in a partner. However at age 50 he has worked all his life in jobs that pay minimum or just above minimum wage. He has tried to “improve himself” (his words not mine) previously and ended up burnt out and breaking down admitting that he isn’t capable of more than he does and to be fair he works blooming hard in a manual job and takes on extra responsibility and steps up to team leaders jobs when he is offered but basically he feels he isn’t capable of more.

Then there is me. I earn £17 per hour so more than minimum wage but in my current job I only work one maybe two days per week as that is all I can do without feeling like I’m burning out which I’m aware to all of you NT that may sound a bit pathetic. Plus to be honest the job that I do is quite niche and most of the jobs advertised in my field are part time. I could push myself to work full time but due to my limited and very niche skillset I’d end up having to change jobs and would be on minimum wage doing something completely unknown to me and whilst there is nothing whatsoever wrong with that (I have worked on NMW a number of times previously) I actually wouldn’t end up that much better off financially.

So you can imagine my friends face when I said this to her. We currently get UC, our ds gets DLA and I get carers allowance as I’m just under the earning limit to claim that. Now I imagine most of you will think we are taking advantage of the system but it isn’t the case. I want to be able to work full time without feeling completely burnt out (not just very tired like most NT feel working full time) instead or claiming top ups and to be fair like I said I will have no choice in two years time when my 14 year old ds leaves school band it’s making me feel very anxious.

My friend basically told me that everyone unless severely mentally or physically impaired can work full time and no one needs to be on minimum wage and should push themselves to do better. Well I have pushed myself to do better but I know my capabilities and I have reached my peak. Due to past trauma, anxiety, low self esteem, abuse I am not the most confident of people, I can’t bare being out of my comfort zone to the point I’ll have anxiety attacks. I push myself often to do things that “normal” adults my age do and force myself into uncomfortable situations with the hope i will get used to it but I don’t.

I am not trying to make excuses for myself or my dh although I understand it probably seems that way. I just wanted to express to my friend that me and dh work hard but to our personal capacity and that not everyone is capable of more. She thought I was being ridiculous. Am I being ridiculous to think this way? Anyway I’m sorry for my somewhat incoherent rant. There is no point to it really other than for me to offload.

I over think things constantly worry about the further every single day of my life yet I can’t seem to make additional changes to help things turn out ok down the line. I now know since my recent diagnosis that this is likely due to the fact that in addition to my autism/adhd I am extremely demand avoidant, I have (to some extent) poor executive functioning skills, I’m indecisive, I have no sense of self, low self esteem etc etc etc. Like I’d said these aren’t excuses just facts. I try my best every day putting one foot in front of the other yet I never feel good enough because I’m incapable of bettering myself and therefore condemn myself to a bit of a sh*tty future. Thanks for reading. That’s my pitty party story for one over and out.

It's not a preference. We know what we are capable of, for the most part. Many ND people aren't working because it burns us out too much. I wish I could work part time, but even that burns me out and I become too unwell physically and mentally. Could I work? Yes. Would it take a huge toll on me physically and mentally to the point I want to end everything? Yes.

She’s not much of a friend, is she. Maybe you could ask her that, what actions are she undertaking to improve herself as a friend and decent person? As a friend she is Minimum Wage.

Can you consider different options that might be less masking etc? The fact is that for the majority of mankinds existence there was no state support and all but the most severely disabled have had to manage to support themselves.

Cleaning work? A cleaner can work alone, stim, wear ear plugs, play music, do lots of things that might help you get through the day.

I know a lady who "runs" other people's airbnbs. She cleans, collects and puts out a basket of local produce, sorts out key handover, checks the property for repairs etc.

Dog walking?

Can you move to a cheaper area where your living costs might be lower?

I do worry about the trend towards giving children endless adjustments in school that don't bridge them towards being able to function in adulthood when in reality they will have to learn to operate in situations that make them uncomfortable, and support themselves. I can see that some adjustments are intended to help people manage but others do not seem to actually help people learn to cope with the things that they struggle with.

Can I just say that £17/hr is a professional wage?

Also we have a massive massive shortage of tradespeople in this country but being a self employed tradesperson can free people from many of the obligations employers impose that they struggle with.

No uniforms. Work alone if you want to. Set your own working hours. Take gaps between jobs if you need to recover.

Im 95% sure the painter decorator i use is autistic, the gardener i think probably might be too. They don't talk much and just get on with the job but they are definitely bringing back well more than min wage.

The target doesn't have to be "employment". It has to be supporting yourself financially but there are a lot of ways to do that.

Can I just say that £17/hr is a professional wage

Since when was anything quoted hourly a "professional wage"? Usually a professional is salaried & earns an amount per annum, unless they are self employed and then their hourly rates are likely to be much higher than £17.

Eg a professional wage might be £34,000 per annum. Most professionals who are employed on a salary have no idea what it works out as per hour.

YANBU. Your friends is not really a friend and people should be able to talk about money with good friends and close family without that level of crap thrown at them. Unless you live with disabilities or ND either for yourself or your children you haven’t really got a clue how much more difficult and expensive life is. And everyone who is disabled or ND even with the same diagnosis has different needs and ways it impacts them so you can’t really say ND people should work - it’s all very individual.

Two things:
One, if the money you both earn is enough for you to pay your way - don't worry about it. (Taking DS out of the equation.)
Two, your DS may be finished with school and at 18 will be entering a different type of support. But most likely he will still be with you and you will still be his carer....
Take your time and investigate now what reduced help is available post 18.

She's jealous because she dislikes working full-time.

She's resentful you get given cash and she has to work for it.

It's not 'better' to be a manager at Tesco than to raise a child with additional needs.
It's not 'better' to be a human rights lawyer than raise a child with additional needs.

The world is made up of many people and many situations.

Even if you were doing something somehow morally wrong, and people will say you are, who is it that you need to do the right thing by? Is it Sarah who busts her ass at Tesco 6 days a week?

Or is it your son and your family?

Your friend sounds a bit thick.

You on the other hand have expressed yourself very well, and seem to have a high degree of self awareness.

I would just take this as a sign that you should be more careful who you confide in. 💐

If you are a bank nurse or supply teacher you really do know your hourly wage and it's less than £17/hour.

That's the point I was making, £17/hour is not NMW or even near. It's the sort of money some people have been to uni, gained specialist skills and experience and pay registration and cpd for.

i have adhd and I get it. All my life I could only work part time and after work i would just come home and crash out. I am currently working full time but it is remote with one day in the office. Maybe something like that could work for you as well? I do understand you though it's very hard!

The problem isn't people being on minimum wage? We very much need those jobs! And someone will slways be on minimum wage. The problem is the cost of living, specifically food and accommodation. People on minimum wage should be able to live decently.
I also think the problem is wage disparity.

Slightly different interpretation from your friend, but I’d say there are many forms of self-improvement that don’t involve earning more. There are also many successes of that sort. A long and stable marriage is something you can point to as the fruit of both of you working together as a team.

Manual work should not be viewed as less valuable than other types of work. There is dignity in work and your husband has a king and stable track record of that, which is worth being proud of. I don’t really feel I can comment on your situation. Two days is not much and when you no longer receive financial support for your son (child benefit, child tax credits, DLA, carer’s allowance?) you may well have to increase your work load to three days a week to make up the short fall. That seems reasonable. The current system is breaking under the strain of demand.

Your friend is chatting out her are. FWIW it doesn’t sound like you’ll have a shitty future.

Your friend is an idiot and I'm not sure that you need people in your life who are so toxic towards you.

its a shame people have forgotten so quickly who the ‘essential workers’ were in Covid. Plenty were min wage or lower paid people, yet they are so important for society to function. Your friend is short sighted on that one.

On the burn out issue it’s hard, I think we need something like an ND careers service to allow people to try new roles. We are already an ageing society with fewer workers and if the rise in ND diagnosis continues to reduce FT workers per capita we could be in further trouble collectively.

It’s already scandalous how few autistic people work, I think it’s a lot to do with prejudice and lack of accommodations that makes workplaces too pressured. Agree with PPs on the need for high autonomy, flexible roles.

Due to past trauma, anxiety, low self esteem, abuse I am not the most confident of people, I can’t bare being out of my comfort zone to the point I’ll have anxiety attacks.

It sounds like there are lots of other issues holding you back which aren’t to do with your ND at all. I’m not sure what you’ve already tried, but it’s worth seeking therapy to address those issues and give you some robust strategies for dealing with them. That would make you feel happier, more independent and able to rely on yourself.

Therapists who are used to working with ND people and ND charities may be best placed to help, but your difficulties working may have a lot more to do with your trauma/self esteem/abuse than to do with your ND. These experiences can be really devastating, and have a huge effect on your ability to pursue what you feel is a NT life.

I tend to find that people who have that attitude towards minimum wage workers are massive hypocrites, they'll wax lyrical about it while sipping a coffee made by a minimum wage barista, after filling their car up in a petrol station staffed by minimum wage staff, pop in and see an elderly relative in a care home looked after by minimum wage staff, and go to the supermarket for their weekly shop on the way home and get served by minimum wage staff there, go to work the next day and rely on minimum wage staff so they can do their job well enough to get paid.......... and likely complain about the prices and talk about value for money, service levels etc, but don't think anyone should be in a minimum wage job at the same time.
The only way these services people use every day are being delivered is through the work of people paid minimum wage, the alternative is these services cease or she pays more for them - which option would she prefer?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a job which pays National Minimum Wage. However, you and your DH need to be able to support yourselves financially, so you need to work out how you can manage that.

I agree with you, OP. Diagnosed ADHD. I was working full-time in a fairly stressful professional job until children, Covid and lockdown came along and, although I was holding it together ok, I was not thriving and the three of those together essentially drove a wrecking-ball through my life and sanity and I was left so stressed out that I had to quit.

My OH works full-time in a well-paid stressful job with very long hours. He manages because he doesn't have responsibility for anything at home. He does some stuff, but he is not in charge of stuff - big difference. He just about manages to cope, but wouldn't if more was added to his plate. He is at full capacity and often over capacity.

I now work very part-time at something not particularly stressful where I can mostly manage my workload. I find that this, and balancing caring for two children, and doing most of the house/admin/chores, is very much enough for me. I'd like to develop what I'm doing work-wise a bit more, but will wait until the kids are a bit older and sleeping properly. I also feel at capacity and sometimes over capacity.

I can understand feeling bitter if you're constantly over capacity and so feeling like you're failing everyone (kids, job, yourself) but there's no option financially/practically but to keep going, and you see others who appear to have more options. I would not judge - I've been there and felt that. We're lucky to have some options now.

Your friend doesn’t sound like a friend to me, she sounds very judgemental. And I’m not NT but my sister is and with a host of other issues (anxiety, depression, PTSD…and a narcissist ex husband) and she really really struggles with modern life. She’s curt early not working and I worry how she will cope financially when the children are older.

As someone who has always worked and has no underlying issues, I used to struggle with this but I’m now understanding just how difficult everyday things are for her. Not sure what the answer is OP, but I’d ditch the friend.

This is always my issue with this argument. If everyone were to suddenly become CEO’s or managers or enter these high flying £150k a year career’s- even if for arguments sake we say that’s possible and that there are enough of those jobs for it to happen- where will all of those people suddenly go to buy their food shopping, when there’s nobody working in Asda to stock the shelves? Where will all of those people go to socialise, eat, drink, spend their piles of cash, because all the NMW working staff in pubs/restaurants/bowling alley’s etc are now gone? Who’s cleaning the offices these people work in, because the cleaner’s are gone? If those people have a couple of kids, where will they go, because all the NMW working nursery staff have disappeared into their own high flying careers?

Someone has to do the NMW jobs to keep things running, and there are lots of reasons people choose to work those jobs, not everyone wants to or is capable of doing every single job.

I’m with you OP. I’m diagnosed autistic and can’t cope with full time work. Every single time I’ve tried, I burn out, end up on medication and have issues with skill regression, anxiety attacks and shutdowns.

I am very, very grateful for my husband who can work full-time and help support me financially.

YANBU

I'm also autistic and have 2 dc, one of whom is AutDHD. I'm a single parent and share residency 50/50 with their dad, and I work 18 hours a week.

Years ago I pushed myself to work more hours and stop relying on benefits because I had it in my head that I just needed to "try harder". I'd not long been diagnosed and hadn't really accepted that I wasn't going to "get better" one day.
Predictably, I burnt out and had a breakdown, which resulted in a suicide attempt.

Your friend is ignorant and lacking in empathy. Some people have very real limitations and need to work within them to stay healthy and functional for themselves and for their families.