To ask you to swerve Shein & Temu

[DoNoTakeNo]

This Christmas?
I know it’s mainly a cost thing but if it’s achievable, can people possibly manage with less stuff?

They would likely starve to death on the streets. Or have to resort to sex work.

This is something I often struggle with. I see things on Etsy, click and look, and then later, Google ads shows me what appears to be exact same thing on Temu often for 90% less. Is the Etsy seller buying from Temu and selling on? Has Temu ripped off the original seller? Same with Christmas markets and craft markets.

Who's going to do that, the Chinese government?

The UK government?

The EU?

I don’t know if this is still the case but ten or so years ago the Chinese govt were basically removing the land of subsistence farmers to force migration to ‘free trade zones’ to supply the demand for factory workers for export products. There weren’t just thousands of people sitting around twiddling their thumbs and looking for (dangerous exploitative) jobs. By buying cheap products from countries with awful labour practices you create the demand for people to be coerced in various ways into jobs, and even into slavery.

Temu is simply a marketplace for individual sellers. It can’t rip anybody off because it doesn’t buy anything from anybody.

Dark, but possibly true. Or they would find an even shittier place to work. It's so sanctimonious to think that Audrey from number 12 can change their world by getting her Christmas decorations from M&S rather than Temu. Really they know sweet FA about any of it.

So I ask again what are you now going to do with the 100,000 now unemployed?

FFS maybe they could wipe your arse too.

Why don't you do something practical about it. Not buying Christmas lights from Temu will do sweet FA.

wouldn't be mumsnet without a some self-righteousness...

Temu has only been around for 3 years. So presumably just whatever they were doing 3 years ago.

By employ do you mean forced to work under slave labour conditions?

And that's the other side of the lazy, argument, that you're actually doing these slaves a favour by shopping with Shein or Temu because then at least they have work.

You seem to be thinking that unless you do something 100% that it is not worth doing at all. Many disagree with that including me.
No one will probably be able to avoid using products made by slaves but they can use less of them.
If you take some care with what you buy, you can buy a lot less. If everyone halved their use of dubious purchasing, it could make lives better for many.

I can't always afford farm shops (which seems to be to many on the thread the only other place to shop besides Shein) so I sometimes buy lower welfare food products than I'd like. It's a mix.
Likewise my other spending. With a mix of secondhand, "ethical" purchases and just buying less, you can limit the amount made by slaves.

I mean, these are actual slaves, actual slaves, not just a "slave labour" concept where people are free but working too many hours. It's shocking that so many are ok with that.

Just go on Etsy and Amazon. Go onto the high-street and check place of origin. Go to the Christmas markets. There is your evidence. Then get on a rowboat and bike and go and do something practical to help in Asia. Opening an ethical farm and fair practice factory might so for a start.

I’ve never bought from shein or Temu (and don’t plan to), but I think it’s a bit ridiculous to post here asking people not to shop at S or T. Everyone knows what S and T are, let’s just respect everyone’s personal decision.
Do you also go around asking strangers to not vote for certain parties, to not buy Nestle products, to not buy from Nike shoes etc?

Did you wonder why?

That is not evidence. People might repeat this, but it isn't true. Not everything made in China is equally problematic. Etsy and amazon are marketplaces - so yes, they stock some of the same stuff as Temu. Which is why people should shop responsibly and make an effort to understand what they are buying. You clearly do not.

I know why. I used to live there after all (in what was then the main factory province). And I’m not frit about things coming from China.

I’m not about to pay quadruple for literally the exact same item.

Evidence please, of both your points.

Thanks for the thread, OP. Glad to see nearly two thirds of us agree with you. My wardrobe is slowly turning into a Vinted-only zone.

Once more for the folk at the back - there are enough clothes already made for the next 6 generations.

You mean act like the great white saviours of old.

That always went well

Its not conducive to what we 'we' understand as ok in the world but the reality is there has always been people exploited/slavery and there always will be. Do as much as you can but dont live in some fantasy land about human interaction and human relationships where this will die out. I think this is the problem of the modern narrative about the transatlantic slave trade consuming most discussion about slavery as if it never existed before that and never existed after that. It did and it will and its been worse and probably will be worse again.

Read history.

You first. Multiple people have replied saying "but Amazon" (whilst obviously not understanding the difference between a retailer and a marketplace) but thus far, not a shred of information has materialized. It should be easy if you're so sure you're right. That opinion must be based upon some sort of fact. Right?

It’s not nonsense at all. It’s a response to short sighted, over privileged hypocrisy. Your logic works on the basis that the people shopping at these places also have the money to be flying a couple of times a year, running a two car household, buying original designs from the high street etc and are just buying cheap crap because they’re too tight to fork out for the same stuff from the high street. The whole point of shopping at these places is that many people aren’t that same person. If they had the money to be buying better quality stuff with no safety issues and no slave labour/ data harvesting stuff, then don’t you think they would be doing exactly that? It’s like asking someone why on earth they would be shopping at Aldi when they could simply ask F&M to deliver a hamper 🤦‍♀️

You fly twice a year, someone else buys some cheap jumpers from China. You’ve got no moral high ground at all.

As many people have pointed out in this thread, many of our more rigorously regulated and tested products are also manufactured in China. So there would be a natural transition from the more exploitative to the more regulated end of the spectrum in response to the shifting consumer demand of eg people buying a plate or a lipstick from Sainsburys instead of Temu. That would improve health and safety in this country and reduce some of the worst aspects of labour in factoriesfor global export. To really improve matters then we would need further pressure to increase supply chain transparency rather than just test product safety, through initiatives like electronics watch and the clean clothes campaign - the industrial equivalents of the fairtrade mark. I used to think that an increasingly connected world would mean more UK consumers would want to try and reduce global slavery, exploitation, child labour and unsafe working conditions, as we can see and hear so much more of what goes on. I find it so depressing and disturbing that instead for some people at least it fuels even more hyperconsumption with even less care for the people in the supply chains.

(Although my main takeaway from this thread is still horror that teachers are giving children lead paint to chew on without their parents knowing as at least I already knew the rest of it…)

I avoid them, don't like the pushy adverts, have doubts about welfare of the workforce and compliance of UK safety standards but I know a lot of people say it's exactly what you can buy on Amazon for a fraction of the price.
End of the day people usually buy based on price

Seems very naive, but ok.