Don't have kids you can't afford!

[user793847984375948]

Hi all, this is meant to be an interesting discussion.

I keep seeing people say, “Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them.”

But in the UK, if someone works full-time on minimum wage, the state ends up paying thousands for childcare so that parent can work.
If that same parent stayed home, they would receive less support overall, yet they would be raising their own child hands-on. A single mum can work part-time and get rent and living costs for kids, around 500 a month in support if she works.

Nursery is about 1K a month usually. Then there's the wraparound care before and after school that could also be funded by UC.

So why is one scenario seen as responsible and the other as “sponging”?

Further, do people who say “don’t have kids you can’t afford” actually think only those earning £60k or more should have children, since that is roughly what it takes to cover childcare or a single income? That eradicates the above two scenarios and it's just those with independent wealth

If so, what would that mean for society long-term, both economically and socially? There would be fewer poor people over all and I think this would have an impact on our monetary system and menial jobs getting done.

And if you believe that only the wealthy should reproduce, you are effectively asking rich, white, powerful men to police women’s reproduction.
That is exactly what is happening in parts of America right now.

Genuinely curious how people justify this way of thinking.

I’ve always taken this statement to refer to people who don’t work, have never worked and are/always will be reliant on benefits, that those people shouldn’t be having multiple children.
It annoys me that people who work can often only afford one or two children, due to the cost of childcare and other factors yet some people with three, four or more children seem to sit at home all day with no intention of working, somehow qualifying for nursery for all of them. That’s not right to me.

There was some netflix showing a society people didn't have children. They had to import people (cue immigration) to do all the jobs society needs and young people came from a local care home (where troubled teens were rehabilitated).

You either have a reasonable birth rate or you have immigration. You simply can't have neither as eventually everyone is the same age and dead. 😂

@Ubertomusic "I volunteered quite a lot of info,"

No you didn't.

You say you've been in the premises but can't say what their USP is or if they are catering to a "niche market".

You made the blanket statement that they were succeeding because "the owners weren't greedy".

I'm sorry you aren't able to put forward a convincing argument to back up your speculation.

Wayward?

That was my childhood and that of my siblings. Four of us that my parents couldn’t afford to have. We spent our childhood hiding from the rent man, hiding from the bailiff and hiding from the woman from the Provident. We rarely had new clothes and shoes and only then if our Nan took us shopping. We never had days out or a holiday. None of us were allowed hobbies or school trips. As the gas and electric often ran out we couldn’t have baths and had to wash in cold water. Our diet was basically potatoes and an egg if we were lucky. We managed to have a Sunday roast most weekends but that was because gran wanted one so provided the meat. We all grew up to hate roast dinners and chip shop chips were never a treat, but a staple part of our diets.
it was a dull, miserable existence. We have no good memories, nor do we look back with rose tinted specs. Our parents were stressed and absent emotionally. My mother was downright abusive. We were all bullied at school.
It’s not enough to say that children don’t need much because they do. They need a rich and interesting childhood, access to experiences and hobbies that will give them skills and interests that can last a lifetime.
I never had children mostly because I married the first man who showed an interest in me, but I knew that he wasn’t father material and I didn’t want to bring humans into this world unless I could give them what I didn’t have, and I couldn’t because I never had support to reach my potential and so I was well into my 40’s before I was stable enough in a good career to afford a decent lifestyle. By then the husband was long gone and my self esteem so low that I never bothered to look for another relationship. I’m now 51. I don’t stay in touch with two of my siblings who have gone on to have kids in similar circumstances to our childhoods - yes, I judge them. I care for my elderly father which, of course, means paying for everything, same as I do my younger brother.
life is ok, but, you know what? My parents shouldn’t have had any of us. I’m here now and made the best of it, but few people make such an impact on the world that we can truely say that the world should be grateful for them being born. I’m not one of them, nor are my siblings.

It is their business due to the fact that working women are tax payers - they have a view as to how the governement spend.

And you get one vote the same as everybody else and the free Will to use it allegedly I’m not sure that’s a bit is actually true. But we can pretend

My first baby i was 21, a student and had a coil so definitely not planned! My now husband was working but we relied on so much support from our families both practically and financially to enable me to go back to uni once he was born. Number 2 was the only one who was vaguely thought about in the sense that we spoke about trying for a 2nd baby and I was pregnant within a month. Number 3 was a whoops and permanent measures have now been taken so there are no more “whoops” babies!
There was no discussion about whether we could afford a baby aged 21. There was no discussion about not having him although it would have made my uni experience much easier. Things have changed so much since I had baby number 1 that if I was in the same circumstances now, we WOULD have had to have that conversation. 2 days of nursery and nanny every wednesday which was her day off! My mum helped with nursery fees.

Not sure what your point is

I don’t think you should count yourself as not someone the world would be grateful for - you sound lovely, level headed and sensible and your story is heartbreaking.

I think it’s parents like yours that people are referring to when they talk about people not having more children than they can afford.

It pretty much sums up how I feel - that taxpayers money would be better used to support and educate people like your parents and not just given as “free money” - I don’t know what the exact answer is but there has to be a better way than one that allows people your dad to use their children as an income stream.

This is actually laughable.
Dont have sex? Seriously it is our bodies and we get to do what we want with it.
Who are you to tell me or any other woman what to do with their bodies? You are just some random pro life person from the internet

That term is used mainly when people already on benefits, have more kids, even although they are already sucking the state dry!.
People who get money from the state and still make themselves homeless, for example.
When you read that someone is in emergency accommodation and it’s too small or inadequate, only to then read she/he/they have been living there 10 years and have 3/4 or more kids of whom the youngest are below 10 years old!.
You’re put in a one bedroom flat with your baby, but then go onto having more kids, rather than trying to better your situation, by maybe working and improving your chances of getting alternative accommodation.
That’s what most mean when saying if you cannot afford them, don’t have them!.
The real term maybe should be “ don’t have more kids, as the taxpayers are pissed off at having to pay for them!”.

Your posts really show an inability to be polite and are basically rude, it appears you just want to hurl insults rather than enter debate.

Don’t have kids you can’t afford.

This 100%

Well, that's furthered the debate no end.

Of course you CAN do what you want with your body, but if the result of your actions are a burden on the rest of society, then you might want to reconsider

So what happens when life throws something at you? I used to be a Citizen's Advice Bureau worker. Many people don't start out not being able to 'afford' their children, something happens like a child or adult becoming unwell, or a relationship breakdown. Think it through.

LOL you the taxpayer seem to be perfectly happy to waste billions on failed covid contracts enriching friends of our amazing politicians 😂 Good for you, you must be filthy rich to be able to afford that and do not mind at all :)))

Why is your only response to a waste of money an EVEN greater waste of money?

And why are you suggesting that ‘we’ (the taxpayers) are ‘happy’ to waste billions?

I’m a taxpayer and I hate that the government is wasting my hard earned taxes!

I don't think money spent on children is wasted, in fact I find such a worldview and having the audacity to lecture people on how many children they should have truly obnoxious tbh.

You're not bitching about fat cats that pocketed your money though, are you? Because they are out of your reach and will continue robbing you like no single mother would ever be able to, even in your wildest dreams 😁

Good luck hating thy neighbour and putting up with the kleptocrats!

People who don’t work shouldn’t be trying to have babies it’s really that simple.

Yes people can lose jobs but at least they had one when they made their plans. Those who have baby often after baby while not working with a partner who maybe works a little
here and there should not be having babies. They are not even supporting themselves.

I remember the provie women knocking and doing mums not here or just hiding. The beeping on the electric meter meaning it had ran out.

Though there did alway see to be one holiday but that was it. Birthday was £50 and the same with Christmas. Look though the Argos book and find something you want for £50 maximum unless you are combining your birthday and Christmas together. Was the rules. I don’t think I had a coat. One pair of shoes for school and one pair of trainers. Mum cut out hair. Even the spag bol had baked beans in it yuk 🤢 mum laughs about how she tricked me into eating beans I don’t like. Wow thanks mum I won’t eat her food as an adult. Trying to even think what dinners we had, that cheap lamb roll from Tesco, the turkey roll joint from Iceland, spag Bol and the other meals where some type of piss water stew so I’ve never eaten a stew as an adult.

I actually don’t remember much of my childhood more escaping to friends.

Maybe try reading her posts before lecturing? She was an NHS worker and was about to train as mental health nurse so obviously was doing NHS geriatric care jobs. Totally worthless scum for sure, "we don't need the offspring of people like that".

FFS