Don't have kids you can't afford!

[user793847984375948]

Hi all, this is meant to be an interesting discussion.

I keep seeing people say, “Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them.”

But in the UK, if someone works full-time on minimum wage, the state ends up paying thousands for childcare so that parent can work.
If that same parent stayed home, they would receive less support overall, yet they would be raising their own child hands-on. A single mum can work part-time and get rent and living costs for kids, around 500 a month in support if she works.

Nursery is about 1K a month usually. Then there's the wraparound care before and after school that could also be funded by UC.

So why is one scenario seen as responsible and the other as “sponging”?

Further, do people who say “don’t have kids you can’t afford” actually think only those earning £60k or more should have children, since that is roughly what it takes to cover childcare or a single income? That eradicates the above two scenarios and it's just those with independent wealth

If so, what would that mean for society long-term, both economically and socially? There would be fewer poor people over all and I think this would have an impact on our monetary system and menial jobs getting done.

And if you believe that only the wealthy should reproduce, you are effectively asking rich, white, powerful men to police women’s reproduction.
That is exactly what is happening in parts of America right now.

Genuinely curious how people justify this way of thinking.

Touchy, aren't you? I asked what her job was, I didn't say she was "scum", or even imply it.

The wages of a trainee NHS nurse or geriatric care staff, NHS or otherwise, are not enough to support four children with. So why did she have them in the first place when she wasn't in a position to do so?

You wouldn't be asking that if you cared as little as reading her first post, it was pretty clearly said right there. But I get it the feeling of preaching from high moral ground is so much better than training comprehension skills 😁

And why exactly NHS jobs do not pay enough to survive? Are they of no value to the society? 🤔 That's the question!

Yes, it’s sad to not be able to have as many children as you might want to but if you can’t support them then you can’t have them. It’s as simple as that 🤷‍♀️ DH and I have a combined household income of £110k but have no children together. We have three between us from previous relationships but felt that having more would be unaffordable. It is what it is 🤷‍♀️

You’re missing twinklys point. When I decided to have a child, I weighed up the costs involved vs what I earned and how I would manage should something happen within my relationship whereby I would have to fund any children on my own. I wanted him to have a good lifestyle whether I was with my husband or not. That’s what I didn’t go on and have 4 children that I would have to fund on my own should the relationship breakdown or my husband died or became unable to work. It’s irrelevant that could afford them then it’s whether she can afford them now and that’s because she didn’t have any forethought that what ifs.

Of course they are. But that still doesn't mean they pay enough to support four children with. Because they don't, and they especially don't at trainee level.

She had four children in 8 years out of wedlock when she didn't earn enough to support them, and while accidents happen, that wasn't the case here either - they were planned. Four kids planned, with no means to support them. That shows extraordinarily bad judgement.

And yes, I know she eventually got married, but her initial post reads that they had the kids first. That's just ridiculous.

Ridiculous comment her spelling and grammar are fine, if someone typed out a comment littered with spelling mistakes but agreeing with your pov you wouldn’t bother with the grammar nazism.
There are plenty of well paid jobs that don’t require being an encyclopaedia.
Judging someone with four kids by different men fair enough but someone with four kids by the same man who left her (BLAME HIM NOT HER) is just being a zealot.

4 kids isn’t too crazy, there are countries in Africa where the average family is about 8 kids and they are genuinely broke, if people having kids they can’t afford bothers you that much start a charity dispensing condoms and the pill to African nations.

No, you are missing the point 😁 Don't you see that lambasting underpaid NHS staff who literally wipe your elderly's asses is... bizarre at the very best? 🤯 For anything, let alone their children! It's you who owe them! 🤦‍♀️

I'm not lambasting her. I'm certainly not lambasting what she does for a living (perhaps it's you who doesn't have a great grasp of comprehension).

I'm pointing out that she planned four children without the financial means to support them.

Planned them.

Planned to have children she couldn't support or afford.

Ah yes, I forgot! That's why NHS junior doctors were protesting, they must have been unhappy the taxpayers were wasting so much money on their ridiculously high salaries.

And nurses must be rolling in it of course 😁

Sorry it's very difficult to take you and other posters "we will import cheap labour and will be lecturing them on their spelling and number of children" seriously. You guys are deluded.

Why on earth does Twinkly owe her anything!?

Just her?

missed this one yesterday, don’t think it’s normal for parents to give you a lesson on taxes at 15, maybe they should of but I don’t think they had any idea their daughter who never got in any trouble and always had good grades would get pregnant.

Anyway can you really dislike someone for claiming benefits before they even knew it came from your taxes? Do you go around telling all teen mums you see that you disapprove and think they’re a waste of space or just online?

Because she was working for the NHS caring for the taxpayers being in an underpaid job.
Remember the covid pans? 😁

Sorry but telling anyone when they should get married and how many children they are allowed to have is arrogance beyond belief.

Then shouldn’t employers pay staff enough to cover those basics? The fact a family with 2 working parents needs benefits to survive is shameful in 2025.

Nursery should be free for everyone-just like school. Taxes should be lower so that businesses can afford to pay their employees a true living wage. Zero-hour contracts should not exist, nor should jobs where travel time goes unpaid and workers end up putting in eight-hour days for only four hours’ pay.

No one working full-time should need government top-ups just to afford life’s essentials. The current “living wage” isn’t enough to live on. The entire system needs to be rebuilt-so that government support exists only for genuine emergencies, not as a patch for an unfair economy. It’s the system that’s broken, not the people who are having children.

No, of course not, but she's the one posting and he's not here to give his side.

Either way, unless he's also earning enough to support four children, which he clearly isn't either since the state is now picking up the tab for them, both irresponsible.

Accidents are one thing, but actually planning four children you can't afford to pay for? Why is that OK? That's worse!

So what? She was paid for her work. I didn't bang any pans and neither did a lot of other people. I pay my taxes. That pays their wages. They are paid for their work like the rest of us.

I certainly don't feel I owe NHS workers anything, especially ones I've never met or been treated by.

Twinkle pays taxes to not only pay her wages but also the for her children's keep as she can't pay for them herself, it's certainly not Twinkly who owes that lady, it's the other way around! Unless you're one of those weirdos that think NHS workers are our moral superiors and should be worshipped, which you may well be from your posts.

I didn't tell anyone when to get married (again, you're lacking a bit in the comprehension department, aren't you?). I said having four kids without the financial protection of being married when you don't earn enough to support them (or even yourself, by the looks of it) on your own is extraordinarily unwise. She was in an extremely vulnerable position. And still is. Because now she's stuck on benefits with four kids to feed.

Why is it arrogant to think that planning to have more children than you can afford to pay for is unacceptable? Do you think the state should just pick up the tab for them, because someone wants them? How many of your children are the state paying for, since you're so touchy about it?

Quite. I owe her nothing. She didn't care for me, or for my father who died in a hospital room on his own.

You raise a very good point about the benefits thing I've never thought of it that way before !
And the person who said well I pay tax your tax contribution monthly is not even close to what the government pay out in childcare

She was working for the NHS caring for taxpayers in an underpaid job, knowing she was working in an underpaid job, yet still popping out four kids in eight years that she expected "the taxpayer" to fund. Zero sympathy, just aghast at the entitlement.

I don't see how that is relevant to what I said.

Me too

She was not expecting the taxpayer to fund them. She was in a relationship with the father and they got married. A totally normal thing to do... make plans together.
Then he left her.

You are basically saying anyone in minimum wage jobs should not be having children at all. Just own it.