Don't have kids you can't afford!

[user793847984375948]

Hi all, this is meant to be an interesting discussion.

I keep seeing people say, “Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them.”

But in the UK, if someone works full-time on minimum wage, the state ends up paying thousands for childcare so that parent can work.
If that same parent stayed home, they would receive less support overall, yet they would be raising their own child hands-on. A single mum can work part-time and get rent and living costs for kids, around 500 a month in support if she works.

Nursery is about 1K a month usually. Then there's the wraparound care before and after school that could also be funded by UC.

So why is one scenario seen as responsible and the other as “sponging”?

Further, do people who say “don’t have kids you can’t afford” actually think only those earning £60k or more should have children, since that is roughly what it takes to cover childcare or a single income? That eradicates the above two scenarios and it's just those with independent wealth

If so, what would that mean for society long-term, both economically and socially? There would be fewer poor people over all and I think this would have an impact on our monetary system and menial jobs getting done.

And if you believe that only the wealthy should reproduce, you are effectively asking rich, white, powerful men to police women’s reproduction.
That is exactly what is happening in parts of America right now.

Genuinely curious how people justify this way of thinking.

I am glad we have welfare system where kids are not left in poverty.
It is all very well saying that people should only have kids they can afford, but if that meant no government help at all, then only the well off would be having kids. But I get the impression that is what some people on here want.
It is not like you can return kids once they are born.

Sad to see some piling on on to the single mums on here. On MUMSnet. FFS.

You are doing your best. Don't let the twats on here blame you for the situation you are in.
You were married... you had no idea your husband would leave. Am fed up with seeing the woman blamed for ending up in situations like yours.
My ex left me after 8 years too. He also cheated. The first thing my mum said to me was "what did you do?".

The blokes a useless prick, obviously-and I hope he got the snip before fathering any more kids he can't look after. I just don't know why some women make life so hard for themselves-four kids with zero support, no friends or family help at all? Of course you're going to be in dire straits if the man walks out. I'm sure she's doing amazingly well, it must be a very hard life though.

I suggest you review who actually pays taxes in your country

It came across as you think they use them as a cash cow.

It is not a crime to not be married you know.

I was born into a family that never worked a day in their lives and the state raised me. If we go down this line of “don’t have children you can’t afford” you are in effect saying some children are more worthy of life than others and I think I have added value to society despite my upbringing.

You are not legally protected though, if you go ahead and have children with him. I think it’s a dangerous gamble.

I am also from a FSM family. My f went on having children (6) because it showed what a 'big man' he was, and because my dm could feed us (but did nothing else) for less than he received in family allowance. We were a revenue stream to him, nothing more.

Yes we have all contributed to society, but our childhoods were utterly miserable.

I have one child. I stopped at one because I could never have lived with knowing I had given my child an equally poor and disadvantaged childhood.

@No5ChalksRoadyour narrow minded thinking is why a lot of single mums feel attacked and judged. I had worked from the age of 13 until I had my first child, then I got another job I met my ex husband and we had planned a future together, it’s not an excuse is it? It’s facts we was together a long time and settled down, we even got married ffs! So how that’s an unstable relationship in your mind I don’t know 🤷🏼‍♀️ I didn’t know he would end up cheating on me 6 months later did I? That’s the point. I also got into university as was going to study mental health nursing but that had to be postponed due to my eldest being in a mainstream school and not coping, so my priority was getting him settled and sorted so he could thrive and get an education in the environment that was more suitable for him, because when you have children they come first and are priority, my career has been put on the back burner for now due to raising my kids. Seems as though you are one to tarnish all single mums with the same brush and it’s a disgusting attitude.

@Firefly1987ooh another with the same narrow minded and disgusting attitude towards single mums! Hi 👋🏻

You can read the response I sent to another member in this thread not wasting my time repeating myself. 😊🙌🏻

I get not approving of someone who has 4+ kids by a variety of different men but that poster is a zealot, a few pages back on this thread she said she’d dislike a woman who had a baby at 16 even years later after getting a job.
Im not sure if she’s just trolling I’ve never met anyone who thinks like that.

@XenoBitchhonestly the judgements and the comments here are disgusting, I will defend myself because I won’t allow it. Some people’s situations are out of their control, so what if I have 4 kids that’s doesn’t reflect me as a mother, they was planned and they are here. You always get some jumped up old fashioned fool having to write their nasty vicious comments. Life isn’t a fairy tale lots of us have been through a lot. Thank you for your comment. 😊

Awful 😞

And so what if I got pregnant at 15 when I was young dumb and in love? I’ve done a good job of raising my children anyway. I guarantee you were not perfect as a teenager also calling bullshit on your claims you knew all about taxes at 15.

There were plenty of girls who got pregnant young 45 years ago in fact statistically it was more common than than today, you just didn’t know about it because they got sent away to have the baby in secret. You are full of bullshit

@Ubertomusic Have you ever run a business and employed people?

Because unless you have, you're not in a position to comment.

That is okay. Just pay shitty wages.

It’s all part of the master plan, to suggest that those in charge haven’t been planning accordingly for the enormous surge in pensions that they need to pay out is ludicrous.
But equally there wasn’t enough productive, useful employment for the young people in the 90s either we had pretty high unemployment
Therefore tax credits which have morphed into universal credits were brought in instead of a universal income. The easiest thing in the world to do would be to just pay everybody £600 a month to do what they wish with.
But of course, then that wouldn’t provide employment for all the HMRC employees who are implementing the system.
They are all just cogs in a wheel
It does make me laugh the bickering amongst ourselves about who’s doing what, worst.
Nobody gives a shit when it comes down to it.
Earn your money don’t earn your money. It doesn’t matter. It’s all coming from the same friggin place and those who think they’re net contributors make me absolutely howl out loud.
One trip to A&E would wipe out your contributions there and then. You wouldn’t be allowed to use the road to drive home with if we are going to charge you what you actually should pay.

Let me spell it out to you.

Anything that isn't an asset to a business is a cost to the business.

If wages go up then costs go up and prices of the goods/services have to go up.to maintain profit margins.

If the cost of goods/services become too high people won't buy, the business folds and everyone loses out.

Most small businesses aren't operating on huge profit margins they're just paying their way.

I do run a business and I managed teams but thank you all the same for putting me in my place, you seem to think you are in a position to dish out your advice to strangers so you probably are a figure of authority on all matters.

The point is that many people who are working are thinking carefully about whether they can afford children, the costs of childcare as they are working, the additional costs and often the practicalities. On the other hand it seems that some those on benefits don't have those issues as the state provides benefits and they have the time, don't have to think about childcare as they are to working. Women who are working rightly feel disgruntled.

If you had run a business then you would understand about the principles of paying a "living wage" and all the costs involved in running a business.

BTW what sort of "living wage" do you pay your employees?

Maybe women that are working have got the wrong idea. Maybe they’re the fools.
Or maybe they’re doing absolutely fine and they should just concentrate on living their own lives and doing the best they can for their families and keep their nose out of everybody else’s business.
Comparison is the thief of joy