Marriages don’t last anymore because..

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Had a debate with an colleague about why divorce seems so much more common now.

They said that in past generations, couples stayed together because they wanted to work through things and were more committed to making relationships last. I said I think it’s mainly because women have more freedom and independence now. Yes, most of the childcare still falls on women, but that was even more true in the past. Back then, loads of women didn’t have the opportunity to work full time and build careers like their husbands, so they relied on them for financial stability. Now that women can provide their own stability, they’re simply less likely to tolerate an unhappy marriage.

To me, that just seems like basic common sense but my colleague laughed and said I was completely wrong. According to them, people today just can’t be bothered to put in the effort and treat relationships as disposable. They also scoffed when I said women still don’t have the same opportunities as men.

It’s had me thinking, I honestly thought this was just obvious, but now I’m wondering what others think. AIBU, or is my colleague?

IMO you’re both correct and they’re linked. Yes perhaps people were more committed to staying together and working through things, because the alternative option was very different than it is today. Wanting to stay together and working through things is not necessarily a positive, it doesn’t mean they were happier!
it’s only 50 years since women were able to get a mortgage without written permission from a man! Imagine that now! Plus not having equal pay, not having childcare options. The decision to ‘stay and work things through’ becomes the less difficult option for all the reasons you stated OP. So you’re both right and they’re both a positive trend imo!

Your perspective of the 70s housewife is very jaundiced. I come from a family of males and non of them were like that. They took pride in their families and homes, were proud of their wives who worked, a teacher, and accountant, and defended their families to the hilt. But, then, my grandmother, born in the 19th century would have tolerated nothing less. She was a formidable Irish matron of 4 sons and a soldier husband and took no prisoners.

Interesting discussion.

I mean, I'd want to know what your colleague does, himself, to work on his marriage? It would be fascinating to know if he has a ready answer and if it's convincing!

I always said that and people denied it. They all told me it takes both to ruin it.

The title is an assumptive one though. Not all marriages end in divorce. You've hung your argument on a misleading premise. The reason I say that is because it's important to note the stats:

Approximately 42% of marriages in the UK end in divorce

Divorce rates fell to historic lows in 2022, at 6.7 divorces per 1,000 married men and 6.6 per 1,000 married women. That's 67 men out of 1000 and 66 women out of 1000.

In England and Wales, about 41% of marriages reach a divorce by the 25th wedding anniversary for couples married in the late 1990s. This is a substantial rise compared to earlier decades – only 23% of couples married in 1963 had divorced by their 25th anniversary.

And interestingly - younger couples are slightly less likely to split up early in marriage than those who married in the 1980s and 1990s. Social changes, such as marrying later and more couples cohabiting without marrying, may be influencing this shift.

Even more interestingly, there is a recognised rise in "Grey Divorce," which refers to the increasing divorce rate among those aged 50 and older. This has been driven by factors like longer lifespans, shifting societal attitudes, and increased financial independence for women. This trend has seen the divorce rate for those over 50 double since 1990, with 36% of divorces now occurring in this age group, and the rate for those over 65 is still growing. Key contributors include the "empty nest" syndrome and the realization that retirement is a long period to be spent in an unhappy marriage.

Then they are being ridiculous.

If one spouse chooses to have an affair that isn't the fault of the faithful partner, that is purely their own doing.

Everyone here is saying it’s women. Women x. Women y. Is this true? Is it actually women filing for divorce?

The children are punished anyway by their parents example - a series of low-value relationships and not-so-happily blended families isn’t something to aspire to. Girls and boys grow up lacking accountability for their actions knowing someone else will pick up the tab regardless.

Looks that way

https://www.bbc.co.uk/worklife/article/20220511-why-women-file-for-divorce-more-than-men

Yes women file the paperwork most of the time. Seems to me a lot of the time the men have already voted with their feet by that time.

Ah yes but his actions alone are not enough to end the marriage!

If only she was eternally forgiving, there would be no divorce.

"Forgive him and try again" etc.

I don't think who petitioned for divorce tells us who ended the marriage though.
If your dh has moved in with someone else and you file for divorce, that would go down as the woman initiating it.

I agree. I don’t think people are willing to compromise any more, they want everything exactly the way they want it including their partner. A successful marriage/ LTR is all about compromise. 35 years and counting here.

Likelyhood of getting married at all is now highly social economic dependent - higher social economically you are more likely marriage is.

So fewer marriage is why there a drop in divorse - couples never married in first place. 51% of births in UK are outside marriage or civil partnerships.

While co-habiting in Europre including UK isn't as unstable as USA but it's less stable than marriage.

I think kids make a massive difference - once they exist to often the additional tasks fall on mothers causing resentment- then once kids leave home things change and more splits. If you seeing it going up I wonder if it's your social group and I wonder if it's an age range thing or things like youngish kids or kids leaving home.

I think higher expectations for "happiness" is a large contributer to the epidemic of depression, anxiety and loneliness. So yes! These expectations are a bad thing

That's true.
If your husband is cheating then he's checked out of the marriage even if you instigate a divorce.

I find their view ignorant and offensive and can only think those who say it have behaved badly in the relationship, so want to shift some of the blame. They’d get short shrift from me if they ever dared assert such an opinion to my face.

Of course it can only take one person, as any emotionally intelligent person would know (like you and me 🙂).

My grandmother left my grandfather when my mum was small and went to her mothers. This would be late 40s early 50s. Her mother told her that her place was with her husband. She didn't have any choice but to go back to an unhappy marriage as she had no money, no job and no where else to go. How awful to be stuck in that situation.

Same as my upbringing. Father and both grandfathers very family orientated, always doing things with us, mother with a full time professional job, both grandmothers worked too. I just don't recognise the "little woman staying at home" kind of mother that almost everyone else seems to have, nor the useless abusive husband/father.

I must admit I was a bit taken aback by the standard of lads when my friends/sister and I started dating. My friends and sister seemed to put up with a lot of crap from their early boyfriends and sister married a waste of time but couldn't see it until it was too late. I soon ditched my first serious boyfriend when he started becoming unreliable and argumentative, literally after the first 2/3 months. My, now, DH was very much in the image of my father and grandfathers, i.e. reliable, respectful, etc which is why I stuck with him through some bad patches (externally forced, nothing to do with us) as it was worth it to get a "keeper".

So how many times can you forgive and carry on?

A colleague of mine was married to a serial adulterer. Each time he cheated he said he was sorry and wouldn't do it again. Each time they agreed to a "fresh start".
He must have spun her a 'good yarn' because 3 infidelities and 4 kids later he finally left for the last OW.
Finally the wife divorced him and he married the OW.
He died of stomach cancer two years later and left a lot of money to the new wife.

Yes, I agree. There are limits, of course, but I do often think a lot of the anxiety and depression is because people are now almost force-fed a diet of everyone else's perfect lives via social media etc., which for most is simply not attainable, and probably just a fake facade for the "slebs" and influencers too. Nothing wrong with compromising - of course as long as it's not all one way and doesn't slip into abuse etc.

38 years here. Married at 23.

Even more interestingly, there is a recognised rise in "Grey Divorce," which refers to the increasing divorce rate among those aged 50 and older. This has been driven by factors like longer lifespans, shifting societal attitudes, and increased financial independence for women. This trend has seen the divorce rate for those over 50 double since 1990, with 36% of divorces now occurring in this age group, and the rate for those over 65 is still growing. Key contributors include the "empty nest" syndrome and the realization that retirement is a long period to be spent in an unhappy marriage.

I alway see menopause blamed for that on here - the caring homone and women waking up.

However from what I've seen a significant number of men hit around 50 and turn into grump irritable arses - I think it's health and possible frustrations with career plateau worries about redundancies and sometime mid life crisis when they run off to buy sport cars and get a younger woman in fear of getting old.

Also many health issue hit aorund 50+ and it's apparently shocking common for men to leave sick women and less so other way round.

I also wonder about elder care hitting that age range - I've notice there often an irriating with women family needing help and it's all on the wife but when it's husband family there are expectation wife pitch in even if relationships aren't great with IL and it being a them problem. It's different from having kids as that's chosen by parents and there's often fun - but with elderly paenst it can be a lot of work for little appreciation.

A relative of mine, who was born in 1911, was urged by her eldest children (then teens) to leave her violent husband, but she never did. The teens tried to reassure her that everything would be all right if she left. Many decades later, one of them remarked that actually, her mother wouldn't have been all right if she'd left.

I've since met a few people who have grown up with violent fathers. Their mothers were housewives who didn't have the means (or the support from society) to leave. It would have been better for their children if their parents had split up, but that only seemed to happen if the husband chose to leave.

I also think women had different expectations of marriage in the past.

in the past, if you married a man who had a steady job, didn’t cheat, wasn’t abusive, and didn’t gamble or drink away his earnings then you counted your blessings.

These days lots of women (including me) really don’t need a man’s income- sure it’s NICE but it’s not essential to my happiness and wellbeing. Not being abusive and not gambling / drinking to excess are entry level requirements to gain access to my life.

The things I expect are support, shared goals, equal responsibilities in the relationship, a connection, sex life, shared laughs, shared interests etc.

And actually, the things I want are not always forthcoming from men! Lots of men are typically very bad at these things because they weren’t socialised to provide care, understanding and support.

I think there’s a major gap in what the average women wants from a marriage and what the average men is able to provide. Hence the divorce rate.