Page 9 | To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

reallyreallycrazy · 2025-10-21T09:34:01+00:00

Slight hyperbole but not far off. Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships. Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories. And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter). I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way. I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

Dweetfidilove · 21/10/2025 15:36

RubySquid · 21/10/2025 13:03

Is he also working class though? Those are the white boys that are left behind

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The OP says the list of qualifiers includes social mobility, which presumably includes class.

I know the CS also has questionnaires with class identifiers - yours parents jobs/homes etc...

Isn't this to identify working class applicants? And if it is, why would a white working class boy not be selected, on the basis of his class when 'diversity hire' is supposedly to disadvantage white middle class men?

curious79 · 21/10/2025 15:36

Beedeeoh · 21/10/2025 11:32

The reason for this is that it's much more likely for white, male middle class candidates to be successful through other routes. You're talking as if your son will have no chance of getting a position in future. Statistically that's unlikely. White males generally do very well in grad scheme applications or just open applications. The point of offering internships and apprenticeships to disadvantaged groups is that it gives them a better chance when it comes to the latter type of application or an alternative way to get a foot in the door. That's why they are not usually open to candidates who have those advantages already.

I work in the public sector and the vast majority of our grads this year are white, middle class females - not great. If other areas are achieving better diversity, I'm all for that.

The most underperforming segment today in the UK amongst young people are white working class males

Everlore · 21/10/2025 15:36

I am not going to read all the responses as I have more than filled my quota of nauseating MN bigotry for the day. However, I wonder if the OP might wish to consider that her son is just not as qualified for the placements as the successful candidates, rather than jumping to the conclusion that employers have hired an inferior applicant simply because they are black, female, poor or disabled.
Please tell me your not encouraging your son to develop massive chips on both shoulders about this, becoming that guy who always bangs on about how hard it is being white, male and financially comfortable in this unfair woke world is not going to help him win friends or influence people!

BitOutOfPractice · 21/10/2025 15:37

reallyreallycrazy · 21/10/2025 11:26

In banking it is the reality, same in insurance, at least what I've heard from people I know who work in global, top UK banks/insurance.

Not everyone, obviously, but these people - very senior - commented on how out of 12 and 15 intake, only 1 and 2 males respective. All others diversity/females.

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Yes yes the banking and insurance sectors are really well known for having hardly any white men in them 🙄

Bambamhoohoo · 21/10/2025 15:38

MouldyPeppers · 21/10/2025 15:36

But then contradict yourself by saying that group isn’t exclusively white?

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I didn’t? Are you looking at the post I responded to?

seems like we have ourselves in a confusion 😂

Beedeeoh · 21/10/2025 15:38

FairKoala · 21/10/2025 14:23

But if no or very few grad schemes have openings for white males then how can all these white males get on them?

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Op is talking specifically about summer internships and apprenticeships. Both of these routes are generally a core part of diversity initiatives. Internships because they give candidates the necessary soft skills - confidence, familiarity with workplace norms - that they may not have if they don't have family or other role models in professional roles. Apprenticeships because they are often the only viable route in for applicants from poverty who cannot afford unpaid volunteering or university.

Graduate schemes are separate and much less likely to be for social mobility/diversity candidates only. In fact I don't think I've ever come across a whole scheme that was restricted in this way, they are usually open to anyone.

Bambamhoohoo · 21/10/2025 15:40

MaturingCheeseball · 21/10/2025 15:35

@Bambamhoohoo it’s a stupid question though as unless asked for proof people are bound to dumb down occupations! I told dd to just leave it blank, though if I remember rightly dh did have a period of unemployment at that time - kerching!

it depends on how they consider the answer though doesn’t it?
When I was 15 my dad was a Plumber and my mum a house wife. That’s not privileged, but it’s not likely to be getting me any DEI points either.

LevoitPotato · 21/10/2025 15:41

reallyreallycrazy · 21/10/2025 14:57

Thank you so kind and so helpful.

Btw, I don't think that DEI is wrong, and I do think there definitely needed to be rebalancing as clearly it used to be (maybe still is) a bit of an 'old boys white network' (though if you're not familiar with that sort of background - which applies to all backgrounds and genders - it is still a tough one to enter).

My DS is very privileged, being white, male, middle class (working class parents who went to lower ranked unis) and private 6th form. But he still felt fed up. I'll share your advice about where to perhaps focus his efforts on i.e. not the big banks etc, and he always bounces back but that will really help. :)

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Take a look at the Bank of England website, they are hiring for a range of internships and apprenticeships (if that fits with your sons’s skillset and career goals).

Fearfulsaints · 21/10/2025 15:41

I think all this is highlighting is how few good opportunities there are compared to the number of people able and willing to do them.

I don't think companies would seek diversity if it wasnt in thier own interests as I dont believe they are forced to. This makes it very difficult to change.

I suppose young white men (working class?) are suffering due to an over supply of old white men in companies that decuded they needed diversity.

MouldyPeppers · 21/10/2025 15:42

Bambamhoohoo · 21/10/2025 15:29

Yes but I do think we’re mixing up “diversity hire” with these community partnerships.

community partnerships aren’t about hunting the poor. They are about the workforce reflecting the local area or the customer base.

ergo- a rich Indian person whose parents are Brain surgeons who lives in a 5 bed townhouse in Hackney and goes to the local comp being involved in community initiatives isn’t a failure of the partnership to “hunt the poor”

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But when these partnerships are only available in cities then being from ‘the inner city’ becomes a privilege over those in poor provincial towns.

Holluschickie · 21/10/2025 15:43

Everlore · 21/10/2025 15:36

I am not going to read all the responses as I have more than filled my quota of nauseating MN bigotry for the day. However, I wonder if the OP might wish to consider that her son is just not as qualified for the placements as the successful candidates, rather than jumping to the conclusion that employers have hired an inferior applicant simply because they are black, female, poor or disabled.
Please tell me your not encouraging your son to develop massive chips on both shoulders about this, becoming that guy who always bangs on about how hard it is being white, male and financially comfortable in this unfair woke world is not going to help him win friends or influence people!

As I said my DD did not get on a grad scheme despite being a brown woman.
She freely admits she didn't work hard enough in uni during the pandemic. It's not because of racism. She is now working her way up.

Never a good idea to encourage DC to be victims, whatever race you are.

mugglewump · 21/10/2025 15:44

The title of this post is misleading and just says everything about middle-class, white privilege.

Yes, it can be frustrating that a small number of internships (not grad jobs or apprenticeships) are restricted to certain demographics, but imagine being from one of those demographics, desparate to get in to that particular industry but having no idea how? The reason this is happening is because these sectors are full of white, middle class privilege whose parents knew some major player, who knew how to navigate the application process, who went to some (private school) where the CEO's child was in the same class.

5128gap · 21/10/2025 15:46

user927464 · 21/10/2025 11:48

It's everywhere unfortunately now and it isn't necessarily doing anyone any favours.

I recently went through a process for a very senior role. It the sort of role that only very small number of people are appointed to nationally. Over 1000 people applied and went through a very detailed and rigorous 9 stage process. I got down to the last three. I was then told that it was effectively tie break and diversity criteria would be applied. I then got through to the last two (presumably on the strength of being female) and then I didn't get through the final diversity screen so presumably there was another criterion applied. Its ridiculous. I shouldn't even have been awarded additional points for being female since it very much isn't a role that required the use of my vagina. It should always be the best person for the job. If that person is a white male then so be it.

Isn't the reason they needed a tie breaker that you were all equally 'the best person for the role'? The 3 of you had gone through a very rigorous merit based process that had failed to yield an outright 'best' person. So what should they have done to decide? Toss a coin?

Pleasegodgotosleep · 21/10/2025 15:46

Apprenticeship in financial industry. 2500 applications for 17 roles. It is highly competitive.

Halfordsontheway · 21/10/2025 15:46

Is it at all possible that your son just isn't as strong a candidate as those who are successful? Perhaps he could focus more on strengthening his CV to give him a better chance.

I think we're a long way from white males being considered disadvantaged.

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 21/10/2025 15:48

justnottinghill · 21/10/2025 11:29

I work in finance - there is a huge problem with getting disadvantaged students in. Plenty of places for white men and women.

There is no issue here - your son just isn’t able to handle the competition.

Surely it should be whoever is best for the assignment.
Honestly you sound a bit racist here “plenty of spaces for white men and women”.

MouldyPeppers · 21/10/2025 15:48

mugglewump · 21/10/2025 15:44

The title of this post is misleading and just says everything about middle-class, white privilege.

Yes, it can be frustrating that a small number of internships (not grad jobs or apprenticeships) are restricted to certain demographics, but imagine being from one of those demographics, desparate to get in to that particular industry but having no idea how? The reason this is happening is because these sectors are full of white, middle class privilege whose parents knew some major player, who knew how to navigate the application process, who went to some (private school) where the CEO's child was in the same class.

But very very few from any demographic has the privilege of the sort of contacts and knowledge you suggest. Most middle class white men certainly don’t. How big do you think this CEOs son’s private school class was?

Bambamhoohoo · 21/10/2025 15:50

mugglewump · 21/10/2025 15:44

The title of this post is misleading and just says everything about middle-class, white privilege.

Yes, it can be frustrating that a small number of internships (not grad jobs or apprenticeships) are restricted to certain demographics, but imagine being from one of those demographics, desparate to get in to that particular industry but having no idea how? The reason this is happening is because these sectors are full of white, middle class privilege whose parents knew some major player, who knew how to navigate the application process, who went to some (private school) where the CEO's child was in the same class.

Agreed. I find it so saddening that 20 years ago we were crying out to get these amazing opportunities for under represented groups. I can’t imagine how proud I would’ve been to work for an organisation doing this.

20 years later the backlash is coming from the middle aged sharp elbowed and they’re actively stopping progress because their children might not find their lives as easy as it used to be. Because they’re upset that they can no longer smash the exams and get a lifetime of reward.

It’s controversial but I’m of the view that someone has to suffer for us to achieve equality. Because privileged white men have taken what wasn’t theirs, and sharing some of it back means they lose it. That doesn’t mean it was ever legitimately theirs though

Marylou2 · 21/10/2025 15:51

Fellontheground · 21/10/2025 11:31

YANBU - my DD is a high flying maths A level student in a state school who has proactively sought out various maths schemes for state school students. However she hasn’t a hope of getting in - indeed many she’s been told not to even bother - as she is not black/a refugee/school meals/pupil premium etc etc Such a shame that smart kids like this miss out.

Really? My DD was inundated with offers for maths/CompSci schemes from Nuffield/BigAccounting etc. Bog standard state high school, white, not from low income. Do you live in a high quintile Polar area 4/5? I think this is what they're looking at now.

Bambamhoohoo · 21/10/2025 15:52

IsEveryUserNameBloodyTaken · 21/10/2025 15:48

Surely it should be whoever is best for the assignment.
Honestly you sound a bit racist here “plenty of spaces for white men and women”.

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what does best mean? It’s an internship, there is no best. None of the applicants know what they’re doing.

why wouldn’t the minority applicants be best, not just for their abilities but because they’re best for the companies future too.

Shinybrightdarling · 21/10/2025 15:52

CuriousKangaroo · 21/10/2025 15:32

So you if you see a successful brown or black person you assume they are more likely to have got there as a diversity hire, than on merit? Because that is exactly the sort of racist thinking that schemes aimed at those students are needed to address - because some white people cannot fathom that we are just as clever and hard working as they are, let alone smarter or harder working. And so we (and women too) are hired at lower rates than white male candidates when posts are open to all, because of the assumptions inherent in racist and sexist thinking.

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A lot of people often do think that brown/black/gay people, and women, only got where they were because they were diversity hires. I’m hearing people saying things like this more and more. For example, one of my daughter’s school friends was chosen to take part in a highly competitive international university exchange programme. She told me her old school friends all think he got picked because he is black. I spoke to my son last week and he said he’d met a nice girl but he didn’t like her friends. I asked why and he said he didn’t like the sort of things they said eg one of them tried out for the editorship of a university newspaper but she didn’t get it. They all said they knew why: the boy who was chosen was black and gay.
I know that women, people of all different races, gay people etc can be just as hard working and clever as white males. I’m just pointing out that their successes will be called into question the more diversity hiring goes on.

Bambamhoohoo · 21/10/2025 15:54

MouldyPeppers · 21/10/2025 15:48

But very very few from any demographic has the privilege of the sort of contacts and knowledge you suggest. Most middle class white men certainly don’t. How big do you think this CEOs son’s private school class was?

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I work for a plc.

there are thousands of people in positions of power in this organisation. They know how to get their children into a plc. They have the contacts. You don’t have to be CEo. It’s common to know how to navigate the corporate world.

it’s common in my world, at least. The child whose parent works as a hairdresser? I’d suggest they’re at a disadvantage compared to my children.

Shinybrightdarling · 21/10/2025 15:55

Marylou2 · 21/10/2025 15:51

Really? My DD was inundated with offers for maths/CompSci schemes from Nuffield/BigAccounting etc. Bog standard state high school, white, not from low income. Do you live in a high quintile Polar area 4/5? I think this is what they're looking at now.

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She was inundated with offers? Was this last year - because she’s the only one I’ve heard of who was.

GabriellaMontez · 21/10/2025 15:56

reallyreallycrazy · 21/10/2025 11:50

Like someone upthread said, there are tick boxes. Some would say that it's HR who are merely monitoring intake but I have insider knowledge that it doesn't seem to be just for this. Might be wrong.

But, yes, there are lots of programmes closed to certain groups - you can see many listed here:

https://app.the-trackr.com/uk-finance/spring-weeks

Of course, that still leaves many opportunities but it just seems that it's swung a bit too far and the whole AI selection is very demoralising too.

A couple of senior people said they get so many applications that all successful applicants are high achieving, but that there is definitely less holistic candidates now - i.e. those with other interest outside of academia and made in their view for less diverse teams (not in terms of gender/colour etc) but in terms of experience and personality!

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Yabu.

The thread title says 'grad and apprenticeships' which strongly suggests jobs. Thats just not true.

This link is to various outreach programmes. Some as short as a day.

Londonmummy66 · 21/10/2025 15:57

1dayatatime · 21/10/2025 13:08

The diversity story that sticks out in my mind is from my daughter's school where pupils were being called out got class to approve particulars photos or have photos taken to be used in an external school promotional material.

Anyway there was a black lad who was very good in the school rugby team and sure enough he was called out of class and everyone assumed it was for a rugby photo approval

Anyway when he came back to class he was fuming. Apparently they already had "enough" diversity faces for sports photos but no black faces for the music photos, so they asked him to pose for a photo with a trumpet, when he had never picked one up before in his life.

His classmates thought that this was hilarious (as kids do) but he was genuinely pissed off for being used for the colour of his skin rather than his actual ability (in rugby) just to tick a diversity box.

This one made me laugh as DD2 was always the second violinist in any string quartet photo the school used. The other (much better) good violinist in her year was never asked and fumed about it. The reason - DD was white, the cellist they always used was black and the other violinist and the violist were Chinese - as was DD's classmate......