To Think that Grad & Apprenticeships are now only for Diversity Candidates

[reallyreallycrazy]

Slight hyperbole but not far off.

Yes, of course I suppose my DS should be appreciative of his 'white privilege' (I do detest the term though), but he's been applying to over 100 x spring & summer internships and apprenticeships.

Invariably, he finds that lots of programmes are only open to black/female/social mobility/ND candidates. In one recent case - a global consultancy - there were NO openings for anyone outside of these categories.

And today, on LinkedIn, he forwarded me several links from leading banks reaching out about apprenticeships etc. In most photos, you might be lucky to spot 1-2 white males and in the video of one, there were not a single white male (or female for that matter).

I get that these firms need to do outreach to disadvantaged groups but if you look at the population level percentage of the various group categories, this really has swung too far the other way.

I get that many of these organisations have years to catch up with diversity hires but to try to rebalance in such an aggressive way and in a short space of time, makes it very difficult for young, white males (unless they have qualified for 'free school meals') to get a foot in the door which is especially tough in an incredibly tough grad market as it is.

The problem is that if there is any racial bias anywhere in the hiring process we have no idea if you son was a diversity hire or not, but he might have been and there will always be people looking at him and assuming he was one.

I used to support positive action more than I do now - then I listened to a black woman talking about how hard it is when everyone assumes you got the job because you're black and a woman, not because of talent, and I changed my mind.

MITE - Merit Intelligence Talent Excellence - not DIE

@OhDear111 perhaps, but it’s a reasonable correlation which is how I read the pp. In fields like the one the op refers to and things like consulting promotion is part of the path (though I appreciate the previous comment was in relation to the NHS).

Probably because we imported DEI and CRT first.

It's very much the case in Canada, that's for sure.

Some of them are bizarre. There was a summer position in the city nearby for student litter pickers - only open to black students.

I was like, did you really think of the optics of that before you set it up?

Yes I've seen quite a few like that. I don't think it's acceptable.

There should be outreach to schools in "cold spots" to inform them about opportunities, and tell them what they need to think about if they are interested in a certain career but I don't agree with excluding people from applying at all.

However, I think where everyone is allowed to apply, everyone has an equal chance. Especially where CVs are "blind" and you don't know someone's name, ethnicity or where they went to school or university.

Thousands IN ONE PLC.

all of those jobs you mention mean the parent has the ability to decode that world for their children. I know nothing about being a dentist, but a dentist can help their child be one.

However without social mobility the children whose parents have low skilled low paid roles won’t be able to access any support in getting into a graduate scheme or apprenticeship into a corporate or professional environment.

anyway I think you’re basically MAGA trolling so you won’t try and understand this point.

I agree with you OP. I have a ds currently also searching for summer internships in finance and he has also found loads of internships not open for him to even apply for due them only being opened for diversity. Only today, he sent me an example of a “summer diversity internship”. I am a bit in the fence as I am pro diversity, but I also think its given opportunities to people who might never have walked through the door otherwise and there is a sense of people thinking it’s a “diversity hire”. I
am a hiring manager myself for a big international bank and participate in recruitment for grad internship. I have no doubt that we invite people through the door who would haven’t been through our doors if not from a diverse background. It also doesn’t often work out well as they often underperform when in the job and are always referred to as diversity hire. I should probably put on a hard hat for saying this, but this is my experience.

This shows very clearly why these programs are so problematic.

The real things that make you more likely to be successful are being well off, having parents with connections, having gone to the right kinds of schools.

Often the kids that get in on these schemes are very well off, connected, well educated kids who are anything but white. They may be far more privileged than the average white male. Guess what - these kids don't need special help.

While at the same time you will find segments of the white population who struggle, they are poor, maybe in care, went to crappy schools, have no connections. Making it harder for white kids makes it ever worse for these kids, and then people sneer at them for complaining.

Possibly, but I'd think that unusual these days. More so in an organisation with such diverse roles - I wonder how many CEOs have risen from the shop floor?

I can't help but feel that we see race issues through American eyes here. I'd suggest that the effect of class in the UK is a closer parallel to the American race issue.

people moaning that they're being unfair to white males (when likely their workforce is already primarily made up of them and headed by them)

The workforce in the UK should be majority white. We are a majority white country; 80% of the population is white. Less than that would indicate discrimination against the white population. We are not America - until only 50 years ago there were hardly any ethnic minority people here. The indigenous population is white. A third of the BAME population arrived over just the last 15 years, a significant portion without skills. It is crazy to suggest that there is no preference because the workplace is still majority white.

Why would I want to make America great? I am not American and have no interest in America.

I am good at my job and respected in my workplace but I don't mind people thinking of me as a 'diversity hire', largely because it is true. As a recent graduate, no prospective employer would have chosen to hire me over a similarly, or even slightly less qualified candidate, if they weren't committed to fostering an accessible workplace. In order for me to do my job I require a whole raft of expensive equipment and adjustments which an employee without my level of disability would never need. The grad schemes and early jobs I had were through schemes to encourage more disabled people into the workplace, without them, what financial or business sense would it have made to take on an employee who would come with such extra costs and logistical challenges?
Now I am more senior in my career I may be more likely to be recruited without as much account being paid to my disability, but it's taken years to reach this stage which would have been utterly impossible without the vital foot in the door the graduate scheme gave me.

Well said.
These ‘diversity’ hires are equally as deserving and still have to show high academic ability.
Sorry to your son, I know it’s hard out there for young people, but it’s still hard for us black/brown people too.
Spoken as someone who has had to prove themselves above and beyond to even get past the first hurdles due to my name/appearance.
and then, has gone on to experience racism and micro aggression in every single role.
Many places are still not diverse despite these schemes. Pictures aren’t the truth, just a nice veneer!

Some of the racist language on this thread is utterly chilling.

Disability is treated differently in law to other protected characteristics. Unlike race etc it is permissible to treat disabled employees (and applicants) more favourably.

Then you are a terrible hiring manager.

There has been a paid work experience scheme open only to disadvantaged people in every job I have had for the last 10/12 years. With the exception of only one student who went through it, they have been excellent. Of these who went on to work in our industry, many have gone on to do brilliant things.

In contrast, the number of white males I have had to manage (not my hires) who on paper look great (high grades, good unis, interviewed well) who turn out to be mediocre is staggering. They were spoon fed and coddled through their studies so aren’t as smart as they seemed on paper, and have little get up and go. In the last 5 years or so I have noticed that some are so entitled they actually huff and try to get out of doing tasks they consider beneath them.

I never imagined big corporations would listen to little old me - not for one single second. I’m just trying to explain why people are becoming increasingly concerned about diversity initiatives.

It is a shame those mediocre white men weren’t offered internships - you might have spotted their mediocrity before you hired them.

Not really a terrible hiring manager no as I am not doing the initial screening and have to work with what I get. As I said in my post, I am not against pro diversity, but I think it’s got too far. I would say in banking / finance in London today, you have to be better than a “diversity” candidates to get through the door. As previous poster said, we are a white country, so it’s a bit strange when the grad scheme we ran last year had 50% black/ brown.

You're either terrible at your job or your company has terrible employment pratcises; as presumably you can hire 'diversity employees' that are qualified to and capable of doing the job?
What makes your pick so consistently incapable?

Its ok op, the diversity hires will only get so far. The white male will still rule in upper management.
Im sure youre the kind of parent who would also take issue with pupil premium too.

The thing that always strikes me on these threads is the assumption that the graduate should be able to get a place on a graduate or intern scheme. Presumably for a prestigious employer. These schemes are not the norm for first jobs for graduates. They are the cream of the crop and only a few get them. Lots, lots, more get a basic entry level, admin type office job. And have to try a few things before they get to do the big, grand job they think they're destined for.

???🙄

That's exactly what my DD is doing. A not very well paid admin job.

If- as some posters say- brown women get all the grad scheme jobs, she would have got one! But it will be all right in the end. She's learning much needed skills and working her way up.

I feel your pain. For a very long time a lot of people have been concerned that white men are over represented in all the leading positions of power and wealth in our society. That this one group excercise a disproportionate amount of influence and secures an inequitable proportion of benefits.
For the longest time, no one listened to little old us either when we tentatively suggested that, just maybe, other groups in our society have something to offer too. Because, just maybe, white male people aren't innately 'the best' for every role, so, just maybe, there may be some things stopping other people from enjoying the same success, and making their own contribution. And, maybe, we should consider what the barriers are and try to address them so we benefit from these peoples abilities.
Now some employers are finally catching on to the idea that there's a whole untapped talent pool beyond the white men they typically employ, and they're taking steps to attract that pool.
However, these employers are by no means the majority. There are still plenty out there who will prioritise white men, either consciously or subconsciously, so there will always be plenty of options for white peoples sons.