Was the sonographer being a creep?

[Owlmoonstar]

I had an ultrasound scan today to investigate pelvic pain.

Firstly it was external, like a typical pregnancy scan.

And then I was asked if I would like an internal exam, which I agreed.

During the internal scan, the sonographer (a man) touched my bum cheeks in a bit of a weird way.

If you can imagine the way your hand would grip the device, he then released his index and little finger and was kinda jiggling the skin near my bum crack.

He also did an in and out motion with the device, as one would with a dildo.

I don't know if I'm overthinking everything. It felt off at the time. But obviously I was just all kinda tensed up, staring at the ceiling trying to wish the entire procedure was over. Same as when you have a smear test. It's just an uncomfortable, unpleasant situation in general.

I just wanted to get it all off my chest and have some feedback really.

Having a scan, in an intimate area feels generally vulnerable, so I'm not sure if I'm being silly.

I have no idea. I just agreed to it as I figured that it was better for them to have a good thorough look. If I had refused I would have worried myself thinking they missed something.

Probably yes for ovarian issues but the rationale should have been part of the informed consent that OP didn’t get from the sound of it

Im off to bed now, way past my bedtime

Thankyou again for all the replies.

I will update/respond to any further questions tomorrow.

I had a pelvic scan for ovarian pain a few weeks ago and it was an external scan only. The female sonographer put me very much at ease.

Please do feed back your experience.

Every TVS I’ve ever had the probe they use is long and they have had no reason to make hand to body contact at all, ever. I don’t understand why the sonographers hand was so far up the shaft of sonography probe were making contact with your bum crack.

Vaginas aren’t actually very long and not as long as the total length of the probe. I can speak with confidence about varying vaginal lengths as I spent a lot of time having to examine vaginas and perform procedures needing access to the cervix due to my job.

Even if it wasn’t creepy it sounds like terrible technique and that needs to be addressed.

My most recent TVS scan the sonographer always alerted me they were adjusting slightly to visualise and take measurements of the womb and then each ovary. There wasn’t any ‘dildo’ like in and our behaviour either. Just minor retraction and tilting at different angles.

The assistant was also very friendly and I didn’t feel awkward at all.

Something feels off here and a chaperone at the head of the bed would not be able to visualise a rogue finger touching your bum. They probably have no idea that was happening.

There could be something hiding in plain sight here. Please factually report what happened.

Just to add another response, I agree with the bulk of replies I've read here OP. I've had more than my own fair share of internal ultrasounds carried out by both male and female practitioners, and can categorically say that never once did any of them touch my bum in the way you have described. Or move the device in and out like that. The repositioning to find your ovaries clearly or whatever would be more of a side to side motion than in and out. Please do report this to PALS of the hospital in question. Just be factual and explain how it made you feel and say you want them to have the feedback so that somebody else doesn't have to go through what you have. Imagine if someone has had previous trauma is then subjected to that? Awful practice and should definitely be addressed. I'm sorry you had to go through this. You're not unreasonable at all.

I’m glad you started this thread. I had a couple of ultrasounds a year or so ago, both by men, both with internals and it was explained in the information leaflet that they might be offered depending on the external images.
Both times, the men were seated between my legs and so could probably see everything. Both non communicative, no attempt to reassure, convey any professionalism.
This year, I had the same procedure by a female sonographer. Two things struck me. Firstly, that she stood to the side of me, popping the wand under the sheet and in without even looking. She stayed standing to the side and looked at the screen. Secondly, how communicative she was throughout the procedure, explaining what she was doing and what she could see. It was dignified and reassuring.
However, I left feeling quite troubled by the wide disparity of dignity and care between the male sonographers and the female.

As an aside, I think the practice of having women shove their fists under themselves to tilt their pelvis needs to stop.

There are perfectly well designed wedges for this exact purpose that can be used. Women flat on their backs pinning their hands under themselves whilst someone is putting something inside them doesn’t seem ok to me.

I had a wedge today, they didn’t ask and just had it there on the bed which was great

I’m a male clinician who occasionally in the course of work performs intimate examinations on women. The normal practice should be explaining the procedure, the reason why it’s beneficial, offering to rearrange the exam with a female clinician (presuming it’s not an immediate emergency), a trained chaperone will be present as part of the procedure and obviously consented. I try to explain what I’m going to do during the procedure i.e. repositioning, feeling for any lumps, i’m checking for any tender areas please tell… When a procedure is relatively new to me, or i’m considering whether the i’ve identified something noteworthy then I recognise that I tend to speak less/may dwell on part of the procedure to be as confident as I can be.

I wonder if the sonographer in this instance was new to that procedure? Or just awkward/not very good?

Honestly I can’t think of anything less sexually appealing than an intimate examination in a clinical setting. It could be the most physically beautiful person but if I’m checking for a lump/mass, looking for signs of disease, packing a wound/changing a dressing etc it’s just not at all in the ball park of anything remotely sexual. But you do hear some terrible stories in the news.

Hard one to give feedback on for the patient though - making an accusation of being inappropriate is a big accusation, but if you think that’s occurred then you should still do so. From what you’ve said it doesn’t read that it’s clear that’s what’s happened. I think if you felt things were awkward and weren’t explained that this would be beneficial/appropriate to raise and just write in how you felt - that you would have appreciated the procedure/any movements being explained along the way, if he needs to rest a hand on your body to explain why/repositioning/consent…. That you came away feeling uncomfortable. Being an optimist though I hope that this was all down to his experience/lack there of and that he’d benefit from some feedback to improve practice.

Really sorry this happened to you. Unfortunately I’ve had to have loads of these too. Like others have said there is absolutely no reason to be touching your bottom.

I have a slightly different opinion in that I don’t think you need to cushion the complaint by framing it as advice. I can understand why many women are saying that but I think that is how we (women) are conditioned; to not make a fuss. If you feel violated by the experience then I think you should say that if you feel able. (I realise it’s easy for me to say)

All my scans have been with women and there has definitely been a lot of movement and general rummaging around in there. It’s not pleasant but, as others have said, the sonographer should always be explaining what they are about to do and why, checking you are still ok to continue and stopping if causing pain. I really don’t think incompetence can be used as an excuse for touching someone inappropriately.

Again, sorry that happened 💐

I’m not a radiographer/sonographer though and have no experience of the exam you had though.

You don't want to get him in trouble? How about he gets his fingers off women's arses. I think definitely complain and ask for a woman next time.

“Honestly I can’t think of anything less sexually appealing than an intimate examination in a clinical setting. It could be the most physically beautiful person but if I’m checking for a lump/mass, looking for signs of disease, packing a wound/changing a dressing etc it’s just not at all in the ball park of anything remotely sexual. But you do hear some terrible stories in the news”

There is nothing remotely sexual in this clinical situation to you because you aren’t a sex offender/pervert. Some people don’t get off on the idea of touching what you describe ‘physically beautiful’ people. They get off on transgressing the boundaries of others, no matter what that person may or may not look like.

The thrill is in the lack of consent, the swinging just past the line in a way it’s hard for the person being transgressed against to clearly identify it is happening and call it out in the moment or later once they analyse what happened or are left with a funny feeling something was ‘off’

We should not muddle typical male arousal/attraction to “physically beautiful” people in with some men’s gratification around sexually transgressing women’s boundaries.

For a certain type of sex pervert touching women, any woman, in a sly way without consent is the whole point, it’s not about what she does or doesn’t look like.

Many women travelling a crowded tube who are by no means conventionally (to the male gaze) attractive have been groped or pressed against by men and in ways that it is just shy of instantly recognisable what is happening, it’s a fleeting moment that makes you doubt yourself “did he mean to do that”

It’s not about attractive women with their pants off under a paper sheet. It’s about power, control and ‘hiding in plain sight’

As a nice normal non pervert man you might not have thought about it in this way, but trust me, these men exist and they aren’t as rare as we’d like to think.

When I had a TVS, they were speaking to me and each other the whole time, checking I felt okay, "just going to have to move around a bit, your right ovary is hiding." I could see the screen, and they pointed out a fibroid to me, and my left ovary, thought frankly, it was all just slightly different shades of grey to me. And every now and then, they spoke to each other about technical stuff, "Can we just zoom in on that area?" and to note down things like measuring the thickness of the endometrium, and I felt involved with it, not just having it done to me. Most of the gynae staff are women, but the consultant is a man, who i saw for a different investigation, and he also explained what he was doing and that this bit might hurt briefly.

I think it's really odd for any medical staff to treat you without talking to you, at least if you're conscious. They should be explaining what's going on - perhaps not full details if someone is squeamish, but at least in terms of, "try to relax if you can while I do this, I just need to move this to get a better angle, are you doing okay?"

So definitely complain - constructively, so they can improve the service, by talking to patients, so they know what to expect. And if they've had previous complaints,you'll be adding weight to them.

💯 agree with this

I'm sorry you had this experience. Even if there was no creepy motives, it clearly felt uncomfortable for you and that's rough.

I just wanted to warn you though that if you complain, it's likely they will close ranks. You may well end up feeling further kind of dehumanised.

I did. I had chest pain and an older doctor who clearly thought I was being stupid (I wasn't) came into the room and yanked my bra down, exposing my boob unnecessarily, to listen to my heart. I didn't feel there was any sexual motive but it very much felt aimed at dehumanising me and making me feel worthless and stupid for being there - he was very obviously impatient and felt himself far too important to stop and ask consent or treat me like I mattered. I vividly remember a very young trainee doctor being there and the look of shock on his face when the older doctor did this, followed by embarrassment as he locked eyes with me for a minute, looked mortified and went red. Very, very obvious.

Anyway when I complained all that happened was that they said it didn't happen - the doctor would have no need to move your bra for this examination, is a very well respected member of staff and the young trainee doctor I mentioned did not see anything inappropriate and certainly didn't feel embarrassed and akward in the way they described (clearly a man fearing for his job under a dick of a boss).

Sorry, bit of an essay. I'm just saying that complaining isn't always going to bring closure, especially in the NHS.

trust your instincts.
i had a breast exam by a man with a chaperone and it felt really off. I felt humiliated.
About a year later I talked to someone who’d had he same exam with the same doctor. They are a nurse and said they also felt really uncomfortable but for various personal reasons they were not in a position to complain.

It’s hard to say if it was trying to get a specific image, but obviously you had a horrible experience and it’s worth exploring further.

There may have been other complaints.

https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/hospitals/what-is-pals-patient-advice-and-liaison-service/

You can put in your post code as well to find your local one.

It’s worth pursuing. I had a difficult experience and the opportunity to have a face to face debrief at my local hospital with the person in charge and they have changed some of their policies as a result.

In your case, they both seemed like they lacked good communication skills at the very least.

Not everyone wants someone chatty, but some communication and support should be expected from both.

Even if touching your bum was innocent, (maybe they find it easier to maneuver?) it still made you uncomfortable and they should be aware of this. Maybe it is easier to maneuver with a hand placed there but I imagine it's not necessary and they shouldn't be doing it because it is weird and makes people feel uncomfortable.

For every transvaginal ultrasound they ask you to consent, it doesn't mean they are doing it unnecessarily, even when your doctor has ordered that one they have to double check during the scan. The person is likely the assistant/chaperone, their job is to write notes on the computer, to check any forms, sometimes depending on the service they get you to do an online signature for the TVS, and take the measurements from the sonographer similar to a dental assistant.

If you want to report it, you might as well but the assistant hasn't done anything out of protocol, it's not the same as a chaperone for every examination where they just watch/talk with you etc. Some sonographers have light conversation, others don't, both male and female scanners I've had, it's sort of up to them. Most hint if they may do something but some assume you have been guided on what it may be like. But on the sonographer it may be that there's a form to the direct place, a diagnostic centre or the ultrasound ward, if not you can contact the hospital complaint center. PALS often recommended contacting them (hospital complaint) before PALS as they can often resolve it quicker.

How depressing if there’s a pervy man in that job 😞
I hope you’re ok, OP.

I’m sorry you had this experience OP. I’ve had internal scans but it’s a long time ago. I definitely don’t recall anything that made me feel uncomfortable psychologically (as opposed to physically - there was some moving but my recollection is more the side to side type).
Im going to echo a pp above - if there was something inappropriate about what the sonographer did he will deny it.
I did complain about a HCP (non scan related) behaviour of an apparent sexual nature (again more about crossing boundaries and control I’m sure than the “usual” sexual interest (and it was so fucking weird).
I lost 5 years of my life fighting it - of course he denied it and everyone supported him. I’m the kind of person that can’t give up though so I went all the way to court.
If you complain have a think about how you phrase the complaint and be prepared for an “it didn’t happen “ response- which might follow you around for years.
I don’t agree that you should have to think like that but I think it’s wise to expect it.

Just to clarify, the bum touch was some simultaneously as the probe in and out. And it was more of like finger taps on my bum crack area, kinda like a one two three with alternate pinky and index finger kind of touch. Hard to describe.

The moment was brief. But I remember lying there and thinking what the fuck.

Interesting to hear feedback that the length of the probe is long enough that his hand didn't need to be near my vagina/bum aree.

Honestly I can’t think of anything less sexually appealing than an intimate examination in a clinical setting. It could be the most physically beautiful person but if I’m checking for a lump/mass, looking for signs of disease, packing a wound/changing a dressing etc it’s just not at all in the ball park of anything remotely sexual. But you do hear some terrible stories in the news.

This makes you sound like an utter creep yourself.

making an accusation of being inappropriate is a big accusation

Really? 🙄 Do you think this is helpful?

Did you read your full post back and think “Hmm yes this seems appropriate to send to a woman who’s just had an unpleasant experience at an incredibly vulnerable time”???

Scary that you’re a clinician.