To think a lot of midwives are.. just not very good?

[JackandSallySkellington]

Please hear me out.

I am SURE there are dedicated, talented, intuitive midwives out there. But AIBU to think beyond doing obs, most actually do very little in the course of labour/birth and a lot of the time seem very passive and like they just can’t be bothered?

I have had 2 babies at different hospitals. In the first delivery, the midwife ‘popped in to check on me’ now and then and simply called the doctor in to do an instrumental delivery when the pushing clock ran down. She didn’t do anything else - didn’t help me change positions, didn’t offer me a drink, didn’t give me adequate pain relief despite me asking (just kept saying ‘it’s coming…’), didn’t ask me how I was feeling in any way. Couldn’t have been less interested.

Second delivery far worse. I was admitted for induction and after a few hours found to be 4cm dilated. I laboured all night - a full 10 hours - in a cubicle on a ward and despite regular pleas that I was in labour, the midwives insisted I wasn’t. They didn’t exam me again, just offered paracetamol, and only took me to labour ward when I was vomiting and discovered to be in transition and 10cm dilated the next morning. I had really hoped for a water birth and I’m gutted my final labour was spent alone in the dark. The hospital apologised but what’s done is done.

I understand about overstretched NHS etc but my stories are not down to that - in both cases the midwives spent a lot of time milling about and chatting.

I feel like the only stories about midwives being great are when the birth was going well anyway so there wasn’t much for them to actually do.

AIBU to think a lot of midwives just aren’t really up to the job? Sure I’ll get my arse handed to me as I’m aware criticising medical staff is v controversial!

My birth was absolutely horrendous and ended in forceps, a lot of tearing and nearly 2 litres of blood loss. But my midwife was utterly fantastic- couldn't fault her

My only experience was 13 years ago, the community midwives treated me like a disease and constantly sneered at me but the HDU nurses were the polar opposite and I owe them more than I can ever repay. I was shunted out of the HDU at 4am into the postnatal ward and I didn't see a nurse, midwife or doctor again for 36hrs when a consultant agreed to let me go. It was a total shambles.

Mine was so horrible that I had to have counselling to help me come to terms with the verbal abuse, the rudeness, the fact that when I was in transition and beside myself with pain according to her I was in slow labour and "fussing about nothing" and needed the labour accelearting as I had "at least 12 hours to go". She took the gas and air off me as she said it was making me "silly" and she wasn't having "silly behviour". So I had no pain relief . Off she went to get a drip and I started pushing , husband rang for help and she came storming back into the room yelling "what on earth do you want now?" saw the head and then started shouting at me for not telllng her I was about to give birth! I had my baby ar 11.30am instead of the predicted after midnight What sadens me is that my terrilble experience was not in any way unusual I never had another child, there were lots of reasons for this decision but one of them was the utter terror that I experienced under the "care" of that nasty bitch. If you don't like women, noise, babies and the unpredicatalbity of childbirth why be a midwife?

Mine too.

The community ones were good but not in the hospital. Had all the usual issues of being told I wasn’t in labour and to go home. By the time I got to the end of the corridor I was crawling in agony. Why do they DO that - you hear it so often?

Another grumpy one walked around the ward with new mothers loudly telling her colleagues how bloody ugly some of the newborns were. Nice.

I’m sure there are good midwives somewhere!

I didn't, there were other reasons why I did not have another but one of the main ones was the fear of going through it all again would give me a breakdown.

I find this so crazy, with both my births there was a midwife in the room with me at all times, though this may be because baby 1 came 3 hours after I arrived and baby 2 within 45 minutes 🤣 arrived at 8cm in the middle of the night lol. I found the community care far less the second time around but could not fault the ladies at the hospital, although the one that did my stitches took WAY longer than I'd have liked. Standard of care should be the same across the board and it saddens me to realise it seems more like a lottery

In the hospital I had DS1 in they would strap you in to the CTG (on your back, unable to move) leave you and then they could watch it on a screen in the nurses station.

It's really sad to see so many women having a goddam awful time when they should be having, well, not a happy experience (ouch) but certainly a more positive, excited for the future with their new little one experience. It's awful.

I had a really horrible experience with the midwife. She was so unsupportive and rude. I was very nervous as I was a first time mum with a high risk pregnancy and she did nothing to help me at all. She was rolling her eyes at me, telling me to get on with it and saying things like "it's not difficult you just push" and "if you don't hurry up il cut you". When the doctors came to assist she immediately changed and began encouraging and telling me I was doing great. Once they left she told me she'd be speaking to the hospital social worker as she felt I'd be too anxious and overwhelmed to deal with a small baby. It took me five years to actually write a formal complaint.

I was 17 and just under 5 ft tall when I had my first. Got to hospital around 2.30am. Had a bath and was left alone with my husband until nurse came in and told him to go. He said he’d stay till I fell asleep and was told to go, I wouldn’t go to sleep with him there.

Fortunately he stayed. I could feel the baby coming but couldn’t reach the buzzer. H pressed the buzzer and nurse came and told him “it wasn’t a bloody taxi service”. By this time I was pretty much trying to hold the baby’s head back.

H told them the baby was coming, they had a look and then they moved. She was born at 4.00 with no pain relief.

there was an almost identical story in the news a couple of years later, the baby died.

My second baby .. 11 years later! .. I had decided to scream the place down and get some attention this time … unfortunately I was in too much pain to manage a scream. Got to hospital around 2.30 am was told too soon for painkillers. Left completely alone. H had been sent out while I was examined .. and not asked back so the fool stayed outside, although I had drilled into him “don’t leave me”.

it was just on unbearable when they had another look at me, and said too late for painkillers. Baby born at 04.05.

no bad outcomes for me but no good care. seems part of the problem is that no matter how badly things go the mothers thank the staff on the way out .. because by then they are only aware they have a healthy baby.

Yes - I feel for the midwives on a human level, of course I do, but the way they said they just went into a blind panic and chaos broke out - they were the ones supposed to be taking control and preventing ‘chaos’, especially in such severe circumstances. This case has really upset me as there’s an awful lot of mum shaming while the enormous mistakes in her care are overlooked.

Yes I’d have to agree unfortunately. One in particular was snappy with me instead of caring. I was out of my mind with pain, to the point I didn’t even remember there was the option of an epidural. She didn’t offer any pain relief, didn’t help me breath through anything, or offer support. She just got short with me instead.

This is why I'm having a caesarean. No guarantee it will go smoothly of course but it should be a much more controlled experience.

I'm so sorry to hear of all the trauma posters have been put through. Our maternity care in this country is shocking

My experience with every single midwife I saw during the 7 days I was in hospital in slow labour with DD 16 years ago, were horrendous bar one. After a PPH, 4 days of coma and a hysterectomy aged 22 as a single parent, they were generally nicer. Although still fairly useless to be honest. That may be something to do with the fact that I almost died, as did DD due to their actions, that may have had something to do with it. I obviously can’t have any more children, but even if I could, I don’t think I would have been brave enough to do that again. I had horrific PPD, and still have PTSD from my experience. I feel for everyone who has had bad experiences, I only know one person who had a good experience to be honest, and that was an uncomplicated home birth.

Yes the pain is so unbelievably awful it’s all but impossible to advocate for yourself. I often get annoyed at myself for not somehow convincing them that I was in labour, but it was so obvious and I was so clear with them there’s nothing more I could’ve said or done given the circumstances

With my first I was a very young (week after my 18th), very scared single Mum. No support from my parents or from the baby's father - 100pc alone.

Got to the hospital at 4cm in the early hours and told I would have to go home. I cried so much they agreed to let me stay on the pre natal ward where I was completely ignored for the next 18 hours. Got told to stop moaning because they'd already given me 2 paracetamols. Had my DD via high forceps after 36 hours of labour before the epidural had time to take effect. Tore and cut from one end to another.

Back on the post natal ward I told the midwife I needed a wee but my legs weren't working (this was over 30 years ago when an Epidural meant you lost all sensation in your legs for hours). She plonked me on a commode - in full view of the ward and left me to pee so much it overflowed the bowl. Then shouted at me saying I'd have to clean it up myself. One of the other Mums got the Ward Sister and there was an almighty row!

Baby No 2 was a TFMR at 25 weeks. Can't fault the labour or post natal staff. They were absolutely amazing. Took photos for us, made a beautiful footprint picture, gave us a soft shawl to wrap him in and gave us time and space to grieve.

The Community Midwives were a different kettle of fish. Two of them turned up the day after I'd been discharged, took one look at my red rimmed eyes and one joked to another "it's a bit too soon for post natal depression, we'll have to watch her ha ha ha". Plonked themselves on my sofa, told my (then) DP to make himself useful and make the tea......

And then asked me where I was hiding the baby - the one who'd died, not 24 hours previously. I only remember screaming to DP to get them out, get them out.

Day 2 so 48 hours after my baby had died, another Community Midwife turned up. First thing she said was "how's the breastfeeding going?" So she got thrown out too.

Day 3 - yet another Community Midwife arrives - "Look Dear" she says "I have been told you can be a bit difficult but we really do need to check Baby".

It was a fucking shit show. I actually walked over the road to the hospital, hunted down my (wonderful) Consultant and begged him to get it sorted out. I don't know what he did but he sent me a big bunch of flowers to my house with a little card saying how sorry he was. We held a service for my baby at the hospital chapel before his cremation and the Consultant very quietly slipped in and sat at the back. Turns out his sister had a TFMR the day before me and for the same medical reason.

Baby 3 and Baby 4 were both Elective Sections and I got out of the hospital as soon as I could - allowed 1 home visit to check me and the baby and then told them all to fuck off.

I’m sorry you had terrible experiences. I feel incredibly lucky to have had amazing midwives
Neither were simple births but they did stay with me the majority of the time.
I had a student with experienced midwife recently. After my baby was born my midwife got the clinical director in the room as soon as she thought something was amiss and were crucial to the team who saved my life shortly after. I was in high dependency and they did absolutely everything for me including getting my own room for a few days recovery. They also reassured my partner and were stars

Sadly I agree. I really want another child but I don't know if I can face it again.

During my induction I bled heavily, After being dismissed repeatedly, they finally checked and said I'd be moved down to the labour ward urgently (within an hour) as an emergency. It was actually 16 hours because there were no beds. I hadn't felt my baby move for 2 days and kept begging to have additional monitoring and they acted as if I was being weird and dramatic. I felt like I was lay there waiting for my baby to die while they all laughed away.. I remember thinking that if I died right there in the bed, they'd just shrug and say "no beds, what can we do?".

I started to wonder if maybe I'd misunderstood the urgency of my situation but when I was finally moved, I was treated as if it was a serious emergency which was confusing. Eventually had an emergency c-section (which was actually a good experience with lovely staff) but baby and I had an infection so had to stay in for a week.

The post natal ward was one of the worst things I've ever experienced. One member of staff shouted at me to stop crying when I was in pain trying to get out of bed and then she turned to another patient and told her that some people have c-sections thinking it'll be the easy way out but don't realise how painful it is. (I hadn't chosen it - it was an emergency). I heard the staff bitch about me on the corridor to each other My baby screamed constantly and I'd walk around the ward at 4am sobbing and the staff would laugh and tell me it's what I'd signed up for.

The whole thing was absolute mayhem. They left a piece of plastic in his cot by accident from his swab. They forgot to give him his antibiotic eye drops for days. Someone casually told me my baby had a heart murmur and would need a scan on his heart then walked off. I had no idea what a heart murmur was and thought something must be terribly wrong.

I am not a difficult person. I'm a real passive, overly-polite people pleaser and I think this was the problem. Some of the staff were just exhausted and busy but some were cruel. I am positive that one of them genuinely enjoyed watching me in distress.

These stories are so upsetting. I am so sorry for everyone who has had a bad experience. I join the chorus I’m afraid. I can still hear the cold, unfeeling Caribbean midwife I had with my first. I can still feel her fingers waggling back and forth across my vagina during the pushing stage - still don’t know why she was doing that but it was horrible - and her voice barking “Push properly!” She kept me pushing for almost two hours and it ended with forceps in theatre. And she refused to let me go on all fours or stand up. Years later I had a uterine prolapse which required surgery and I always linked it to the long pointless pushing stage.

With my second two children we paid for a private birth and doctors delivered my babies. Utterly different experiences.

When my sister had her first baby I was with her and I heard a midwife in the corridor say “we’ve got a princess in here” because my sister had asked for an epidural.

Sadly this seems very common judging by a lot of MN threads I've been reading, and importantly, the government maternity care inquiry.

On IG I was recently recommended a post looking at 'mean girl' behaviour among US female nurses, apparently much-discussed on TikTok recently. I know the healthcare system there is different, and elements of the midwife problem here are unique to the UK. But I think it's a wider issue & have some thoughts as to why.

https://nurse.org/news/mean-girl-to-nurse-pipeline-tiktok/

I don’t think I had a midwife. I had a planned c-section so no labour or anything like that.

I turned up at the hospital, waited in a side room for a while and was then called through for the birth. I only spoke with the anaesthetist.

Once I’d given birth I was then put in a room with my baby for a while and was then pretty much kicked out less than 24 hours later following very minimal attention.

It was during the end of Covid though so maybe that’s not a typical arrangement.

I’ve given birth twice and I’d say that about 20% of the midwives I met were excellent, 20% were abysmal and the rest were ok, competent but not going above and beyond.

My first birth was very similar to the OP’s second. Ended up in labour overnight on an induction ward with a midwife who didn’t believe I was in labour, couldn’t be bothered to examine me and told me to be quiet and go to sleep so not to disturb the other patients. Then there was the one who shouted at me to stop pressing the call button when I was in advanced labour because they were having their morning meeting.

The one at my second pregnancy booking appointment wasn’t great either. For some reason their system showed I had been pregnant before but there was no record of a birth. She simply said I can see your baby has died. I said no, then she asked if I was sure. Like wtf?! I insisted that my then toddler was at home. She called a supervisor who again stated that my baby had died. I thought that was very unprofessional and triggering for someone who had actually lost a baby.

There was also the midwife who refused to look at my birth plan (after her colleague at my previous appointment told me to put one together) because ‘no one cares about these things’.

However, the midwives I met when I gave birth the second time were fantastic (different, smaller hospital). They encouraged and supported me, they actually helped settle my baby on the postnatal ward so that I could rest, made drinks for me, they were amazing.

The problem is that having bad midwives when you’re in a vulnerable position makes the whole experience a hundred times worse and can have serious consequences. I was left with PTSD after my first birth, but my second birth was actually healing.

I think midwives and other healthcare professionals involved in births almost rely on women not feeling able or strong enough to complain as they are so exhausted so they feel they can get away with treating them terribly.

I had a midwife asking multiple times if I was sure I hadn't "just wet myself" when my waters had broken - it was obvious it was my waters. I asked for pain relief (40hr induced labour via drip as they just didn't bother with a pessary) as I'd had no pain relief at all and they said "you can have some gas and air but don't ask for anything else".

With my second, whilst trying to deliver the placenta a doctor was really harsh about me not trying hard enough to push the placenta out and they'd have to intervene if I continued to fail. It made me feel terrible and I tried so, so hard but just couldn't do it. They took me to theatre for what was supposed to be a 30 minute procedure but I was in over 2 hours. Gave me an epidural and got the placenta out. That doctor very sheepishly came in and explained the placenta had got stuck and they had to rip it away from me as it wouldn't have come out no matter what I did.

I was also sexually assaulted with my first as I expressly stated I did not consent to internal examinations unless absolutely necessary (I was told by my community midwife that good, experienced midwives/Dr's don't need to do internals). They didn't ask or even inform me they were going to do this and just did it without my consent.

My experiences were very positive. Lovely gentle empathetic person at my first birth… I wish I’d been able to have my baby on the MLU with her, but I wasn’t that well and had to move and her shift finished. The next one was nice and tried her best but was less experienced and confident so a bit less helpful to me - but that’s the difference experience often makes I think.
I had a home birth with my second and those midwives were fab. They can’t be on their A game at every moment when they’re with you for hours in the middle of the night, but they all (3 including a very lovely attentive trainee) brought so much expertise and support and had just what I needed when I needed it, despite being clearly overworked.

Oh, just to add as well I didn't scream or cry or shout at all as I was so scared to embarrass myself or be told off so I wasn't making a fuss or anything.

And I don't buy the short staffing excuse as there's no excuse for a lack of empathy. I work with elderly residents and the second I stop empathising with them will be the second I change career. We're often short staffed but still provide dignity and care because we actually care and have their best interests in mind at all times.