To think a lot of midwives are.. just not very good?

[JackandSallySkellington]

Please hear me out.

I am SURE there are dedicated, talented, intuitive midwives out there. But AIBU to think beyond doing obs, most actually do very little in the course of labour/birth and a lot of the time seem very passive and like they just can’t be bothered?

I have had 2 babies at different hospitals. In the first delivery, the midwife ‘popped in to check on me’ now and then and simply called the doctor in to do an instrumental delivery when the pushing clock ran down. She didn’t do anything else - didn’t help me change positions, didn’t offer me a drink, didn’t give me adequate pain relief despite me asking (just kept saying ‘it’s coming…’), didn’t ask me how I was feeling in any way. Couldn’t have been less interested.

Second delivery far worse. I was admitted for induction and after a few hours found to be 4cm dilated. I laboured all night - a full 10 hours - in a cubicle on a ward and despite regular pleas that I was in labour, the midwives insisted I wasn’t. They didn’t exam me again, just offered paracetamol, and only took me to labour ward when I was vomiting and discovered to be in transition and 10cm dilated the next morning. I had really hoped for a water birth and I’m gutted my final labour was spent alone in the dark. The hospital apologised but what’s done is done.

I understand about overstretched NHS etc but my stories are not down to that - in both cases the midwives spent a lot of time milling about and chatting.

I feel like the only stories about midwives being great are when the birth was going well anyway so there wasn’t much for them to actually do.

AIBU to think a lot of midwives just aren’t really up to the job? Sure I’ll get my arse handed to me as I’m aware criticising medical staff is v controversial!

I was very lucky and had three textbook births - no painkillers, laboured at home until 7/8cms and then quick deliveries so had very little engagement with the MWs beyond "catch". But with my third, who rocketed out, they sent me for a shower within 30 minutes of him being born. As soon as I stepped out the bed I told them I was incredibly shaky and didnt feel up to it, they told me I wouldnt get to the ward until I showered. My DH stayed in the room with DS, I wobbled into the shower, fell / fainted, split my head and ended up with stitches. It was actually bizarre now I think back on it - to this day I have no idea why they felt the shower was so necessary so quickly.

I think so much of the indifference, poor practice, nastiness and downright cruelty (my midwife said to me "I was hard on you because you were going up the wall with pain and kindness would have destroyed you" Her hardness left me with diaganosed PTSD for which I had therapy many yeard later) is because childbirth like periods and menopause are uniquely female experiences and are seen as less important, less deserving of care, of listening to women. We all have hearts, liver, lungs etc and when these malfunciton there does not seem to be a culture of "stop exaggerating and take two paracetamol" .

Complain complain complain… men would and do. Find out who is the best person to complain to. Record everything especially the name of every member of staff treating you.

If you’re assaulted by procedures carried out when you have clearly refused consent (‘ I am not consenting to X. if you proceed you will be guilty of criminal assault’) go to the police.

Do be pleasant to staff - most are great and well meaning. Remember to write and thank them naming names. Gratitude is the other side of complaining and should be just as common where deserved.

If you read the posts on this thread the problem seems to be one of a culture of unkindness and withholding of help, both practical and psychological. It’s not about money or funding. It’s genuinely as if these people have been trained to be tough and ensure that childbirth is as much of an ordeal as it could possibly be.

It seems to be an article of faith that new mothers (see pp above who had given birth 30 mins earlier) MUST NOT BE ASSISTED IN GOING TO THE LOO for the first time after delivery. Why not? When I was in that situation, it was made clear to me that it was a policy (not explained kindly, either) and it was definitely not due to staff shortages. Several mws were standing chatting at their station.

That’s what could change tomorrow if there was the will - just kindness, empathy and support instead of treating women like prisoners.

That incident should have been investigated. Those mws failed in their duty of care.

It’s bizarre! If I were a mw, I’d be really concerned about whether the women I’m responsible for were up to getting themselves to the bathroom.

All the midwives I had were pleasant but there definitely felt as though there were two tiers. The ones on the initial maternity ward I went to for induction, didn't seem completely firing on all cylinders and some of them struggled with English. Plus the ward itself was filthy ( I appreciate not their fault probably).
I had some complications and ended in consultant led care when actually moved to the labour ward. The midwives there were on a completely different level - it felt as though they were as competent and as knowledgeable as many of the doctors and were clearly highly intelligent and well qualified
Again, the post natal ward felt like it was full of the tier two midwives - don't know if there is any truth in this - but just how it felt at the time!

The problem with any group
of staff is that if they aren’t treated with respect by their own management, and they are very overworked and undervalued, then it’s harder for them to value the people they provide a service for. Thats universally the case.

I found my community midwives cold and detached / going through the motions when I had my son (first and only child so far). They correctly identified my pre-eclampsia and sent me to hospital where I had a natural birth, so I'll forever be grateful for that.

But the aftercare was shocking - they booked me in for a 5 day visit and then cancelled on the day and asked me to come to them, with a 5 day old, stitches and no car. I never had a home visit from a NHS midwife. Knowing the NHS, I had actually booked a private midwife for after the birth to come for a few hours every week for the first few weeks to check how I was healing, help with breastfeeding, learn how to pump, how to bath baby, answer any questions etc, and it was wonderful. She was obviously very friendly, dedicated and nice, but I had to pay.

The hospital midwives were a mixed bag. Some were lovely but some were rude.

All of the midwives I dealt with were amazing. I cried the last day the community midwife visited because I was going to miss her so much. She was just the loveliest.

Equally, the one appointment I had with another community midwife was also excellent and she was really patient with our questions. The students we met there were also lovely (if a little on edge! ❤️)

At the hospital, we met about 4, all of whom were so kind and diligent. The midwife that was there for the actual birth was amazing. She was really encouraging and I honestly could not have done it without her.

Then the midwives on the post-natal ward had clearly done it all a million times before but were still super patient with me and my slight disorientation.

I think he made up, not feeling well.Then said he was so hungry ( to me unwell people do not have a vigorous appetite ). When unwell one usually just wants a cup of soup and maybe buttered crackers. I think he is playing you for a sucker.

I’m going to be honest. I know 2 midwife’s and a nurse. One is my best friend 😬 so I know her very well. I would not let any of them look after my health with any authority. They are not very bright and I know from my friend that they will pass anyone and everyone eventually (no one is told they can’t do it they all pass). Nursing in general isn’t for clever ppl anymore, they let anyone do it. So I believe what you’re saying, I’m sure there’s some amazing ones but there’s also some that just aren’t very clever and I wouldn’t trust to oversee a cat giving birth never mind a human 😅

Yep - I was induced early and the night shift midwife wouldn’t believe I was in labour, told me to get out of the corridor on the birthing ball in case someone came through, I thought that heavy pushing feeling must be needing a poo as she was so sure I was not in labour so went and locked myself in the toilet to try. Came out, vomited twice, waters broke and then she asked if I was pushing!

I did have a lovely one when I finally got to the labour ward for the very short time I was there.

Although after then left alone, went to shower, felt weak and crawled to the bed with blood everywhere telling DH holding DS1 that I was fine whilst I pressed the call button.

second birth amazing midwife who knew my history after PTSD from it all and she stayed the whole time even after her shift had finished to see me through!

I feel like reading your second birth was like it was my first! Freaky!

Totally get what you’re saying but as I keep banging on about, it’s a culture which develops within the group. It happens in many settings but when it’s healthcare it’s serious.

For eg, I worked in museum education and in one of these tourist attractions I was immediately struck by the cynicism and rudeness of the staff - they seemed to dislike visitors and almost competed to be unhelpful and unwelcoming. They’d all been there too long, they’d forgotten the purpose of their jobs and had fallen under the influence of a nasty, rude ringleader. Lunch breaks were a series of anecdotes about stupid members of the public and laughing about how they’d put them down.

I’m not saying mws are all like this - it’s an extreme example - but it can happen that people lose sight of the purpose of their jobs and get caught up in an ‘us versus the punters’ mentality, especially if a strong character among them encourages this attitude. I’ve seen it in teaching too. No -one’s immune and trainers and management need to be watchful about such attitudes developing.

@NorthXNorthWesttotally agree 👍

@CoffeeCantataI agree with that too. It’s poor or absent management which has allowed that culture to flourish, though.

And staff with poor moral values, character or backbone!!

I had one midwife who worked for one to one who was brilliant. The others have just been a bit rubbish unfortunately. The last lot changed my care over from one county to another (live on the border) at 38weeks the whole time never really telling me if I would be supported to have a home birth (I labour quickly so its the best option for me) when I was in labour I rang them up only to be disbelieved that I was as far in labour. Apparently if you can talk its not happening anytime soon. Well that baby was born at home with no midwives they even got lost when they finally did come. I just felt so unsupported. That was for a straight forward birth must be awful if you have complications.

I had completely blocked out the health visitor!!
with my first, after a very speedy birth, being totally shell shocked and being told “you’re just a paranoid 1st time mum” at the hospital, when I pointed out that baby should have had X-rays, mris and so on for scoliosis, I discharged myself. The nurses and midwives were furious saying that I couldn’t, it was kidnap to take the baby that quickly, I had to wait for discharge from the doctor etc.
By midday I had had enough and left, setting off all the alarms, but very reasonably had pre called the none emergency police number and informed them what was going on, and had informed the hospital security too.
After a few seconds struggle where they were fighting to get me and the baby back to bed they let me leave after my husband held up his phone and told them he was going to report it to the police as kidnap of our baby and holding me against my will.
Eventually we get home and next day the health visitor comes. I’m in tears because BF just wasn’t happening, so I was pumping with a really shit pump, I was 2 days PP and I felt awful after no sleep and the chaos of the day before.
The health visitor swanned into my living room like she owned the place, dumped her bag on my great grandmothers vintage armoire that NO one ever put anything on without a cloth under it, and proceeds to tell me I’m “starving baby”, grabs my boob and twists it (whilst I’m still attached to the pump) and heel pricks my son. At this point we are both crying, my husband is looking furious and about to throw hands with her.
she proceeds to shout at me that the reason BF isn’t working is because I am “being pathetic and giving up” by giving him pumped milk in a bottle, he “will have major nipple confusion and it’s all your fault” I’m crying even harder and my husband just grabs a blanket and throws it over me and baby and growls at her to get out.
she protests, claims she’s “helping” and she has to weigh baby and do all sorts of checks. My husband assures her she will weigh less if she comes around here again, probably the amount her teeth weigh and she calls the police.
I knew the local police as many of them are old family friends, so mistake number 600 I think. I also had pre warned them the night before about the NHS attitude to my baby and had helpfully been recording everything.
The police didn’t even bother coming, they told the Health Visitor that she has no right to intrude in our home and any “checks” that “lawfully must happen” can be performed by parents and simply told to her over the phone.
She protested stating that she was concerned I would hurt my baby as I “was totally nuts” and they advised that she could request a hold.
She never even tried it, and I never saw her again.

Just being curious. Why did you feel you needed to 'achieve' a kind of birth?

I agree op, I had to be induced with my last baby.

I was told to stop screaming, too late for pain relief, told i couldn't change postions and dont worry you won't tear (i did). Midwife seemed uninterested and bored of me. She even chatted to another midwife and they both rolled their eyes at me.

I can appreciate she could of had a busy day, a lot going on etc I just wished she would of once told me I was doing well, some encouragement.

My first labour (16 years previous) was amazing, wonderful caring midwife even though she was exhausted she never stopped being helpful, kind and considerate.

I have given birth 3 times, twice in hospital and they’ve all been crap.
Each time I’ve refused to be examined due to pelvic girdle pain and have had midwives withold pain meds due to this.
i have a history of quick labour, but was left alone when I said I needed to push, midwife came in to find me hanging onto a half born baby, having not had even had gas or air and I have asked for an epidural every time, it was on my birth plans only to have them deliberately mess around until it was too late.

I had my last at home (unintentionally) and it was by far the best experience, no one tried to stick their fingers in me or tried to make me birth in a position that suited them rather than me, and I knew I wasn’t getting any pain meds, rather than constantly meeting some determination not to let me have them.

I'm a midwife so I know a lot of midwives. I've also had three children and come across a lot of midwives.

I work my arse off to ensure those in my care have the best care I can give. I regularly work through my break, start early and leave late so I can ensure I provide what I promise. I'm lucky as a specialist I can basically set my own workload and I take pride in going above and beyond. I can't make the experience better but I can make it smoother and easier and give women somewhere they can get information and support fron even if it's outside my area. I've been lucky enough to work alongside like minded midwives who really do provide amazing care. I've also been lucky enough to have been looked after by midwives who have been supportive, helped me get the best birth experience I could have, who recognised I wasn't well mentally and got me care asap.

I sadly have been cared for by midwives who really couldn't have given less of a shit if they tried. I've been bullied to the point of leaving, and have been made to feel so low and alone. The phrase "eating your young" is still sadly too relevant, and putting in complaints against these bullies get you nowhere. This in turn means midwives burn out and leave or turn into bullies themselves to survive. This then sadly gets reflected in the care they give.

I have actually found that some of the issue is midwives who haven’t had a baby yet. They can’t seem to compute that it really bloody hurts and it’s not for attention, or fussing.

I had a friend who was a midwife (no children) who told me how annoying the women who screamed were as it “couldn’t hurt that much”
If you’ve never experienced it it can be easy to brush off another persons pain.

To me it felt like an achievement after how my first birth went. It's something I wanted to do and it's something I managed to do, so therefore I achieved my goal of having a vaginal birth