To think a lot of midwives are.. just not very good?

[JackandSallySkellington]

Please hear me out.

I am SURE there are dedicated, talented, intuitive midwives out there. But AIBU to think beyond doing obs, most actually do very little in the course of labour/birth and a lot of the time seem very passive and like they just can’t be bothered?

I have had 2 babies at different hospitals. In the first delivery, the midwife ‘popped in to check on me’ now and then and simply called the doctor in to do an instrumental delivery when the pushing clock ran down. She didn’t do anything else - didn’t help me change positions, didn’t offer me a drink, didn’t give me adequate pain relief despite me asking (just kept saying ‘it’s coming…’), didn’t ask me how I was feeling in any way. Couldn’t have been less interested.

Second delivery far worse. I was admitted for induction and after a few hours found to be 4cm dilated. I laboured all night - a full 10 hours - in a cubicle on a ward and despite regular pleas that I was in labour, the midwives insisted I wasn’t. They didn’t exam me again, just offered paracetamol, and only took me to labour ward when I was vomiting and discovered to be in transition and 10cm dilated the next morning. I had really hoped for a water birth and I’m gutted my final labour was spent alone in the dark. The hospital apologised but what’s done is done.

I understand about overstretched NHS etc but my stories are not down to that - in both cases the midwives spent a lot of time milling about and chatting.

I feel like the only stories about midwives being great are when the birth was going well anyway so there wasn’t much for them to actually do.

AIBU to think a lot of midwives just aren’t really up to the job? Sure I’ll get my arse handed to me as I’m aware criticising medical staff is v controversial!

I'd say people are talking about their experiences, not slagging midwives off. If you're one of the good ones, as many of us have also acknowledged there are, then there's no need feeling personally attacked.

I respect great medical professionals so much. What they do is one of the genuinely essential jobs in the world and in service to humanity. This is why I can't abide the horrible ones - they're in the wrong job or doing it for the wrong reasons.

A bit of a generalisation however, this country cannot afford obstetricians for every check up and births. It would cost more than the NHS can afford. In every job there will be some people very good at their jobs and others that aren’t. Sorry you had a bad experience. Just pay for the service/care you want next time. It’s what we did a London maternity hospital.

I don’t think that’s necessarily true. I think being a doctor is a calling, as is a nurse or other caring role. It doesn’t mean society has a right to exploit such people but it does imply that they chose to do their job for other reasons than practical, economic ones. These jobs do require people to give more than say, an insurance salesperson or an accountant and if you haven’t got the humanity and compassion for them there are other branches of medicine which are more suitable (research, pathology, some surgery).

I visited a consultant dermatologist once whose face was absolutely pitted with deep acne scars. He didn’t explicitly say it but I’m sure he’d chosen his field as a result of personal experience and the wish to help others.

We don’t need obstetricians at every appointment. That’s not what this is about at all.

This is exactly why I had independent midwives. I had a home birth with community midwives first time around and they were contradictory and obstructive. It’s only because my amazing Go actually backed me and was at my birth (Christmas Eve morning and she came for the last four hours of my labour - hard to imagine that now. Thanks to her and also a straightforward labour it was ok. I booked independent midwives for two subsequent births. Only went into hospital for two scans all the rest of the care at home at my convenience with the same two women. Absolutely the best money I ever spent and cost less than many people’s annual holidays.

But have you not read some of the truly awful stories on here? Some have moved me to tears.
I'm a mental health nurse of 30 + years and have read many stories of poor care within mental health care, I don't feel personally got at, it makes me more determined to try and be part of improving care for patients.
All of us in the NHS have witnessed shitty attitudes and poor care from colleague's or been unfortunate to be on the receiving end.

The answer isn't to stop people from speaking about their experiences, some of the stories here are shocking.

YANBU. Sadly one of my birth experiences was like this. Mostly the two of them sitting around chatting and drinking tea in the corridor. Not very helpful at all and did very little. I was even refused a fan even though it was hot in case it ‘hurt the baby’ ffs.

Labour 1- I was in labour from Wednesday 5am to Friday lunchtime. I entered motherhood exhausted. Was never offered a c section, just drugs to strengthen the contractions. I got pnd and the HV was no help whatsoever, despite crying repeatedly when she visited.
Labour 2- I was induced. I could feel the baby's head between my legs, dangling like a coconut and I was in a shitload of pain, but I wasn't believed that I was in labour. Almost had him on the ward. Made it to labour suite, gave birth 20 mins later. Midwife seemed nice, but she gave me diamorphine before checking how dilated I was, so I was high as a kite in my newborn baby photos, and completely naked, and she didn't think to cover me up..so I couldn't show anyone those photos, lol.
Labour 3-When I complained of being in pain, the midwife said, what do you expect, you're in labour.
Labour 4- Laboured on my own on the ward all night. Wasn't believed about the pain. Was told they would come back and check on me, they didn't. They weren't busy, they were all gossiping in the nurses station. I got two cocodamol at 2am and that was all the pain relief. I pushed him out myself on the bed, lying on my side, whilst 4 midwifes scurried around all excited like this was all unexpected. I was left in the bloody, messy sheets for 2 hours afterwards, the window beside me was left open which lowered my baby's temperature dangerously and the showers on the ward were broken that day too. I wasn't offered tea or toast. It was a really crap, traumatic experience. I felt like the midwifes didn't give a shit.
TLDR If you are stoical when in pain, make sure you have someone to advocate for you.

Hi midwife here.

i can assure you we are not all the same bit I know where you are coming from. Please be assured the majority of us really do care. I’m sorry you have been so unfortunately with yours and it’s completely unacceptable. X

If, after reading 11 pages of women's experiences the only person you can think of is yourself then I don't belive you do centre women in your work. Are you not horrified at the stories shared? Do you not think that women should be able to discuss this and expect better? Why should we be silenced to avoid hurting the feelings of midwives?

Yep they ranged from apathetic to offensive and abusive. I didn’t bother with baby 2 and 3 and free birthed because the nhs ‘care’ was so bad.

I had a medically advised c section with my first. My experience with midwives both before and after birth, coupled with the horrible experiences of pretty much every other mum I spoke to (ranging from general rudeness, dismissal of pain etc. right up to some poor women losing their babies through pure negligence) meant that I chose a medically unnecessary c section for my second.

I think it largely depends on area, but there is no way I'd have a natural birth at any of my local hospitals.

I'm sorry you had experiences like that, I still remember my 1st birth which was utterly traumatic and ended up with my daughter not surviving labour. However the midwife Angela (this was 13 years ago) was amazing.
My second labour was an early induction, and I was petrified obviously due to my firstborn. However again the midwife was amazing, understanding when I'm screaming at her not to let my baby die.
My 3rd was also am early induction and complications, were seconds away from an emergency c section. However she finally popped her head out as the room filled with people ready to take me to surgery.
None of my experiences I found the midwives yo be disinterested

Two pregnancies -both midwives and the rest of the team were amazing, I am very grateful for the lovely and positive experience they provided as well as taking care of me and my babies. Also one, was a complicated birth - not easy and baby and I had to stay in hospital for over a week due to the complications.

I am sorry about your negative experience OP, and everyone else, it shouldn't be like a that at all x

Like most professions, I'm sure there are people who are great at their jobs and people who are not so great. I had fantastic experienced midwives who specialised in home births and were used to working without a safety net. They fitted ante natal visits around my work (8pm appointments worked best) and coped with a massively overdue DC1, a PPH where I lost a litre of blood, non standard presentations for all DCs, and my need to make all decisions relating to labour and birth.

I can’t believe how much the cost of IMs has increased since the insurance thing a few years ago. Less than 10 years ago you used to be able to get full antenatal, birth and 4 weeks postnatal care for less than £4k, now it’s £7k for partial antenatal, birth and 2 weeks postnatal care.

Oh yes they could have, in the situations I witnessed. There was no shortage of MPs on the ward but it was clearly a policy to make mothers do this themselves. I accepted this a bit mindlessly for a while but when I thought about it, it seemed wrong.

While you’re actually in the hospital (and particularly for those post-c-section etc) it’s something they could help with. The whole regime seems designed to be wilfully unhelpful and harsh - punishing, even.

Things might be different now but it as genuinely a deliberate (rather perverse) policy when I had my kids, not just a problem with understaffing.

MWs, not MPs!

Maybe there needs to be though!

My experiences on the maternity ward were horrific (monitors used wrongly, drip given unnecessarily (and needle inserted so badly that I couldn't use that hand/arm at all - I asked about 4 midwives before one finally said "oh my god, that does look bad. sure I'll get that out for you!" ), left to lie in bloodied sheets for hours, asked to change my own blood soaked clothes with only one useful arm whilst still attached to a drip?! etc etc) but delivery was great. I assume because that's where they had put the more experienced midwives but I could be wrong? Having read another post here, I'm assuming the reason I was in horrendous pain for days (besides being induced) was because we were back to back. Not one person noticed yet as soon as I made it down to delivery, that was the first thing the midwife said and seemed genuinely surprised I didn't know. Then they had me doing all kinds of stretches and positions to try and flip her the other way (I get the impression I struck it lucky there and there weren't many midwives willing to do what this one did. She was a slightly more mature lady and her student seemed in awe. Would've been an awesome team if, after me already being 3 days in and exhausted, the student didn't make such a mess of breaking my water and then have to pass the job back to her teacher, just to have one thing go smoothly and quickly at that point would've been nice!). Anyway. LO did eventually turn and then the teams changed. The second lot were great too and in the end I asked for the weird wooden low chair in the corner that looked like an antique and the student midwife lay on the floor and caught my baby much like I'd imagine a mechanic working underneath a car with no lifting machinery would have to work! Thankfully the job of stitching me went straight to the more experienced midwife (who still messed it up a bit to be honest but I had no desire to feel like more of an experiment/lesson resource at that point). But yeah. It was enough to put me off trusting a hospital to safely deliver another baby, so I'm one and done.

My heart goes out to everyone who has posted about their experiences on here, it has almost brought me to tears and the women who then went on to have more children, wow, that was more than I could find the courage to do. In fact when I did get pregnant again one (though not the only one) factor that influenced my decison to have a termination was terror at the thought of going through childbirth again, I used to lie awake reliving my child's birth and thinking that I would lose my sanity if I was badly treated again and I confronted memories that I spent years hiding from. It was so ironic that when I was in hospital to have the operation the staff were so kind, supportive, caring and non judgemental, I was really cared for.

You were so traumatised you terminated a pregnancy. That is shocking. I hope midwives and obstetricians read this and understand the impact they have on people's lives...good and bad.

My one and only experience of childbirth was traumatic and whilst some of the midwives were pleasant, others definitely lacked compassion and the caring nature that you’d expect. When I started vomiting, one ran from the room shouting ‘I can’t handle that!’. I agreed to an examination by a trainee midwife for her assessment and she literally couldn’t find my giant cervix! It was very painful so I was gritting my teeth and telling her she was on it, but she kept looking at the senior midwife and saying she couldn’t feel it, so the other one had a go, went straight to it and said it was easy to find. The trainee had another go, couldn’t identify it, even though I could feel she was on it, and she failed her assessment!

Spot on! I feel sorry for some patients who have to come across people in the medical field like someone I know (A friend of a friend). He’s very closed-minded and superstitious, especially about mental health issues. When I heard he was training to be a mental health worker, I was shocked. He said he chose it because there’s money in it! Also, the qualification he’s studying for is mainly because of the bursary he’s getting, I can't remember if it’s yearly or for the entire course. Basically, he's in it for the benefits and this was how the idea was sold to him too. I can imagine he's not the only one just trying to earn but not really caring about the people he sees.

It’s disappointing that for some, the medical field is just about the pay, when some of us see it as an opportunity to help people.

You are clearly a horrible person. I hope I never meet you in real life. Trashing someone else's positive experience proves it.

I’d argue it can.
The litigation bill for obstetrics is around 2 billion a year.
You could more than double the obstetric consultant workforce for that.
Having more heavily consultant delivered care and presence overnight would improve care.