To think a lot of midwives are.. just not very good?

[JackandSallySkellington]

Please hear me out.

I am SURE there are dedicated, talented, intuitive midwives out there. But AIBU to think beyond doing obs, most actually do very little in the course of labour/birth and a lot of the time seem very passive and like they just can’t be bothered?

I have had 2 babies at different hospitals. In the first delivery, the midwife ‘popped in to check on me’ now and then and simply called the doctor in to do an instrumental delivery when the pushing clock ran down. She didn’t do anything else - didn’t help me change positions, didn’t offer me a drink, didn’t give me adequate pain relief despite me asking (just kept saying ‘it’s coming…’), didn’t ask me how I was feeling in any way. Couldn’t have been less interested.

Second delivery far worse. I was admitted for induction and after a few hours found to be 4cm dilated. I laboured all night - a full 10 hours - in a cubicle on a ward and despite regular pleas that I was in labour, the midwives insisted I wasn’t. They didn’t exam me again, just offered paracetamol, and only took me to labour ward when I was vomiting and discovered to be in transition and 10cm dilated the next morning. I had really hoped for a water birth and I’m gutted my final labour was spent alone in the dark. The hospital apologised but what’s done is done.

I understand about overstretched NHS etc but my stories are not down to that - in both cases the midwives spent a lot of time milling about and chatting.

I feel like the only stories about midwives being great are when the birth was going well anyway so there wasn’t much for them to actually do.

AIBU to think a lot of midwives just aren’t really up to the job? Sure I’ll get my arse handed to me as I’m aware criticising medical staff is v controversial!

I’ve never interacted with them as a patient, however, I used to work in a women’s hospital for a number of years and I have to say they were the most unpleasant group of HCPs I have ever worked with, and I’ve worked in the NHS for over 15 years and across 8 trusts in different roles.

Of course some were lovely, some were just okay, but they were so many that were rude, condescending, entitled, defensive and often lazy. More than any other profession that I’ve worked with. It’s genuinely made me afraid of being cared for by them if I do get pregnant.

This is interesting and surprising. Do any HCP have any explanation for this?

When my poor old demented mum was in and out of the local hospital (not exactly a cutting-edge teaching establishment) the standard of care from staff there was really poor. We (reluctantly) had to complain - it was definitely neglect and sometimes approached abuse. Friends who work in the NHS have said - there are some areas which are the 'poor relations' in terms of morale, prestige and recruitment and geriatrics is one of them. OK, I get that to some extent. It must be depressing in many ways.

But helping to bring babies into the world!! Jeez, if you're a HCP - surely that's a wonderful role. I have 2 friends all fired up to train as midwives, and they're lovely.

What is going wrong then? Does this job attract unpleasant people or do people get worn down by the system? I thought my 2 experiences were unfortunate, but it seems from this thread that it's very common - and few midwives are on here to defend themselves, so it would be good to have an inside perspective.

@CoffeeCantata my theory is it’s a mixture of misogyny and the autonomy going to their heads. They have a large amount of autonomy compared to nurses and other HCPs, and I think it’s made many of them very arrogant.

Also, their patients are typically very vulnerable (in a lot of pain, half naked having invasive examinations and procedures performed, scared, overwhelmed, exhausted, worried about their babies, hormonal etc) so not in a position to complain or defend themselves as other patients would, which makes for easy targets.

My first was very similar to your second!

What else is she meant to base it on? And ready this many people have had similar experiences including myself!

That’s interesting. Yes, you are very vulnerable as a mother, both before and after the birth.

As an aside ( and a bit of a cheap point, I admit) with both my children I was very worried about them in their first days and got a dismissive response both times (silly, fussy, over-anxious woman etc) and both DID have problems. The first needed a lumbar puncture and was in the NICU for a week and the other was rushed in the middle of the night to Gt Ormond Street where he was given an ileostomy at 4 days old. But I’d been made to feel really stupid for worrying both times.😠

I had a cat 1 c section and discharged myself early due to the lack of aftercare. I find it utterly bizarre that had I had any other type of major abdominal surgery, I’d have been encouraged to rest. We asked where my husband could find a wheelchair to take me to the toilet and we were refused one. I was told I had to walk, but my legs felt like jelly still from the spinal block and my insides literally felt like they were going to fall out of my incision. I managed to get to the toilet but was in so much pain that I collapsed. We then got told off for that too. I was due analgesia every 4hrs so pressed the bell for it. It never came, or came 3hrs after it was due. Decided to come home and rest it off there instead and it did me the world of good just being able to go at my own pace and do my own heparin injections myself.

Ahhh I’m torn. I nearly died in my first delivery due in large part to a CF of a midwife who couldn’t be arsed to the point of negligence but since her I have met lots who are actually great and committed. One of my favourite humans is a specialist perinatal MH midwife and she is amazing (and saved my marbles!!) I think in every profession there are bad apples and in the current system we have it is the perfect storm for MW’s to be burnt out and have lost any passion and/or compassion for the role.

Retired midwife here. I trained to be a nurse, then a midwife, after having two dreadful birth experiences and thought “I can do better than that”. I trained, and then worked at the same hospital where I had both my children. With the exception of a handful of midwives I found the majority to be full of the own self importance and were generally a bunch of bitches. I loved being a midwife but left after 8 years as I could no longer tolerate working alongside some of the the nastiest women alive.

I had amazing midwives at both my kids’ births. I was so upset when the first midwife finished her shift and a new one came in. But she was also great. My second birth I was only in there 20 mins but she was also fab in that time. Maybe it depends where you are as I was in a midwife led birthing centre both times

Two births here. Both times midwives were absolutely fecking useless. Second labour was worse. Waters went, contractions didn’t start so after 24 hrs they induced me (despite my birth plan requesting we go to elected section after an emergency with my first. Did not want to be induced under any circumstances). Laboured and laboured for what felt like a lifetime. Ended up with epidural - could feel the catheter but was told I couldn’t possibly. Contractions were back to back and I wasn’t coping at all but they basically looked down at me as though I was a drama queen. Made me feel like a failure. Begged for the section, put me off for hours only to open me up and find baby was stuck and, in the surgeons words, “yeah, no way she was birthing this baby vaginally”. They were patronising and aggressive and I felt the least cared for in my life.

My first birth was awful, the midwife refused to believe I was in labour but fortunately my waters had broken so she couldn't send me home. She sent my DH home in the middle of the night, only to call him back almost immediately when it was obvious the birth was imminent.
I had my next two babies at home, with very experienced and competent community midwives, much better experiences. There was also a student present at the first of these births and she was properly supervised to deliver my DS herself.
I did chose to have the last in hospital because she was obviously very large, and again it was fine. The midwife in charge of the unit was actually the same one who had delivered my second child at home and she clearly had a good grip on her staff and her job.
I honestly think it is the luck of the draw, some women are experienced, empathetic and good midwives, others simply are not. Some don't have the temperament for the job.

My first midwife was an angel. My second one (when 1sts shift ended) was a vile cretin. Same with any job. I think you'll find horrible, lazy people in most jobs.

Wow - there’s clearly a real problem somewhere. I hope someone will take notice and try to change this culture.

I’d forgotten, until NiftyPrawn posted, that whole thing about making new mothers in extreme pain for one reason or another get themselves to the loo. That case is extreme (sympathy, Nifty) but even for those of us just with stitches or post epidural, would it bloody well kill them just to offer an arm to lean on to get to the loo for the first day or so? It’s not for your own good - it’s borderline bullying.

Well that’s what I’m on about, the old system of training, before these degrees came in, was majority ward based. Nothing beats actual hands on learning in my opinion.

Horrible indeed.

Some must be outstanding though…

Agree with you. What annoys me the most is when a woman says they want to push and are told ‘no you don’t ‘.
I’ve seen a lot of births (around 70)

I’ve encountered probably one good’un in my time.
With two of my pregnancies, the community midwives were adamant on trying to get me to have a home birth. I didn’t want one and the subsequent appointments were about persuading me otherwise- no thanks.
Last pregnancy there weren’t even any midwife appointments apart from the booking in one and the routine scans. Suited me fine tbh. The midwife I had dealing with me whilst in labour kept going on about ‘I want this, I want you to have that, I don’t want you to want any pain relief, natural birth only me me me’ and that’s what I got because I really did have no say whatsoever.
Absolutely horrid treatment from midwives with my first baby. I’m not even going there.

What I’ve found is in my local trust, it’s all about dissuading mums from going into hospital for as long as possible as they don’t have enough room, and also you’re then past the point of being able to have any pain relief, as they don’t have the staff or the time. This has been true for ALL my births, over quite a long time period.

I gave birth prematurely and had a major infection I was left on the ward bed with no help I was very unwell . My friend went to grab the midwife and she shouted “I CANT MANAGE 16 PATIENTS ON MY OWN!! I CANT DO IT !” I felt so sorry for her but worried for myself
Luckily, I saw a  community midwife who was passing on her way to an appointment from a gp surgery who didn’t even work in the hospital who took pity on me , it’s lucky she was there  and demanded doctors come down -  my daughter needed resuscitating three times, she was 2 months early and I was delirious by that time , there was green stuff literally coming out of me , it was horrible .  nobody to do an epidural
 put a trolley in the corridor for two days and two nights whilst I was hallucinating on an antibiotic drip, with lights on day and night  and the family of other visitors making a lot of noise so I couldn’t even sleep , daughter in NICU -ended up saying I was going to harm myself before anyone took notice . Maternity
 Care definitely needs improving

Bad enough being vilified by the press and on social media. But even our colleagues are ready to slag us off. I hope people I know don’t think I’m arrogant, a bitch and one of the nastiest people alive. I work my arse off and have had to go part time because the job is physically & mentally so demanding. My only desire really is to do a good job and leave women feeling cared about and cared for. If I didn’t want to leave the profession already, I do now, having read the comments on this thread

My community midwife was amazing- I was able to have the same one with both DDs and she was incredible- I actually bumped into her in the antenatal ward whilst I was waiting to be induced with my second and I was in a bit of state as was a lot of waiting and lack of information, and she was so reassuring gave me big hug, explained exactly what was going on and even called me the next day to see how I was and to check if I had any questions. She came to house to sign us off and was unbelievably kind.

in hospital it was more of a mix so I do understand your point. There were some amazing ones and some not so amazing! But I suppose it’s the same as most professions- you are going to go those who are are passionate and love what they do and are great at their job and some that are none of these things!!

I feel sort of torn about this my best friend is a midwife and one of the most amazing, loveliest people I know, and they really get so much hassle. Aggressive partners insisting they need to do something for the labouring woman’s pain (spoiler alert, it hurts and they don’t call if labour for no reason). People from certain cultures treating them as servants because they can’t possibly change a nappy. Birth partners telling them to go ahead and piss the bed, that’s what the pads are for (they’re not).

But I think the worst (and obviously this doesn’t apply to everyone) is all these women insisting they know their own baby/body and mothers know best and then when they aren’t in active labour, or a cord being wrapped around a baby’s neck isn’t fatal (they don’t need their throat to breathe yet, they’re not born) means that they get a lot of abuse and a lot of women insisting they need to be listened to and take priority over every one else, immediately. And I think it created a “boy who cried wolf” mentality for a lot of them.

Those who enjoy exercising power over others in unhealthy ways are often attracted to certain jobs - police, teaching, medicine. It would be great if there was some way to psychologically screen out the unfit.

I didn't see the point in the community midwife, for either of mine. Maybe if there was more to it physiologically or socially, I'm sure they do more than just check heart beat, obs and bump size. Surely?

In hospital have no.1 she was excellent and actively involved with the birth. She wasn't "nice" but she was everything I needed and guided me through it before, during and after.

In hospital having no.2 the midwives just wandered round my room a bit, clearly thinking I knew what I was going lol. As soon as something changed on the CTG they didn't leave my side and ultimately escalated to the Drs. Dr manually extended me to 10cm (literally pushed my cervix out of the way ha) then handed back to the midwife. Until they had to hand back to Dr for assisted birth.

Prior to my second, the midwife I ended up seeing semi regularly for reduced movements was awesome. As was the day assessment unit.

Perhaps you’re one of the handful of midwives, including myself, who is decent, hardworking and empathetic.