Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

Who is being "dragged down"?
Let me tell you, if a child gets a free revision guide or her English trip gets paid for, that is from the PP fund and no-one is being "dragged down".
I think you need to read and take on board comments on this.

So now the children in care are dragging others down. You do realise that the children in care that manage to pass the grammar exams shall naturally have the underlying ability and not had tutoring to pass. Therefore how are they dragging down the standards? What you mean is your elitist and do not like the idea of those pesky children in care or from lower socioeconomic backgrounds having an underlying academic ability.

Dear god, it just keeps getting worse.

@LookingforMaryPoppins How are standards being dragged down when - in your school’s case - all those being admitted have passed the 11+

I know.

I bet Mary Poppins isn’t looking for her.

😂😂

Absolutely this! We are paying about 3k for 11+ tutoring this year - and recognise our privilege (and our daughters) in having the ability to make the choice to do this.

If a child on PP gets through, with no tutoring, then objectively I feel they deserve the place more than my daughter. Of course I would be disappointed for her, but I wouldn't in any way feel it was unfair. I would think 'good on them'. DD has friends who are very bright, but no chance of them getting tutoring for a variety of reasons,and I'm frustrated on their behalf that they won't get the same opportunities that she does, they definitely deserve it as much as she does. It's a flawed system!

Schools do not inflate trip prices (at least mine doesn’t) to subsidise PP children. Schools get additional funding for these children which can then be used for these experiences.

You're right. They never inflate the prices to pay for other children, as you say.
I don't know where the OP has got that misinformation from.

100% not resentful of equaling the playing field. No issue at all with children in care taking priority but do feel that PP
couoled with no siblings simply transfers the struggle slightly higher up the chain.

l struggle to understand how "equalling" should involve children from normal working families being disadvantaged by poor state school provision - all of those that are appalled - do you think a school where less than 20% acheive a pass in maths and English is acceptable? Would you happily send your children to a school with such poor outcomes?

It's not so simple as moving closer (which in itself is a position of priviledge if you are able to do this), rural communities are generally not close to schools - distance criteria never works well for them as secondary schools tend to be in built up area.

The addition of VAT onindependent school fees has widened the situation as there is no greater competition for places at non failing schools.

Yes, I want the best for my children - who doesn't! Yes, also want all children to have a fair opportunity - this doesn't come across to me as meeting that!

I have one that’s in a standard secondary school and one that took the 11 plus. Both very different, with different hobbies and interests.
My eldest wouldn’t have been able to pass the 11 plus at the age he would have had to take it as left primary school slightly below where he should have been academically. He has since caught up and is now in the top sets for everything.
I think having looked into it, you are totally correct it does seem to be fairly common that children are in different schools. I know of 3 families where one child is in a grammar, the other child is in a standard secondary.

I regret being vaguely sympathetic and supportive in my previous response. No children in care aren’t “dragging down” your children. You’ve not heard a thing that anyone on the thread says and you just want to stamp down on the most disadvantaged children to get a boost for yours m because you think you are entitled because you are “normal” and “hardworking”. Utterly disgraceful.

And jon recruitment asking about parental income/jobs.

@LookingforMaryPoppins . No. You used the term "dragging down".
We were just clarifying that your children are not being "dragged down" by disadvantaged children. You have referred to some sort of mythical privilege in many of your posts, which does not exist for these children at the expense of yours.

How would your dd having sibling priority be giving all children a fair opportunity.

This ⬆️. She's not responding to our posts on this issue.

Really?? Is this a thing now?

Yes, of course it's just sooooo unfair to prioritise children who have suffered so much trauma that they are in care but manage to pass the 11+ anyway. Obviously, those children deserve to attend a "sink school." That's the proper place for them, right? 🙄 OTOH your daughter should most definitely go to the grammar school. After all, she's from a "normal family" and therefore intrinsically sooooo much better than those children in care or on pupil premium. 🙄

Seriously, how can you possibly even believe what you've written? I would like to think you're intentionally trying to wind people up. But I'm afraid you do believe that somehow your DD is entitled to attend the grammar school, because. . .? You've never explained why, except that her sister already goes there. So what? If a school is selective, sibling attendance should never enter the picture.

I really hope you rethink your (untenable) position. Get a grip and think about children other than your own.

@LookingforMaryPoppins having siblings rule for selective isn’t giving all children a fair opportunity

selective is about the merits of the child academically (and yes have had a child go through one years 7-11 before they left now year 12) and shouldn’t be about who can bloody tutor the most (and did god the money spent on tutoring we were definitely in the minority never tutoring)

If a child has got there on pupil premium my god they deserve it - looked after even more so

wjo doesn’t is someone getting there on their siblings merit.

plus isn’t it down to score? I always thought it was

You are misinformed and have repeatedly stated things that are not true. We all want the best for our children but, unlike you, most of us don’t want this at the expense of the most vulnerable in society.

What on earth is a ‘normal working family’ that you keep saying are so disadvantaged?

What is the name of the grammar school where children like your daughter are being pushed out of by the children of the lazy poor and who are asking parents to subsidise the trips 9f other (against school funding agreements).

Where are you living that all the other non grammar schools are sink schools? Surely it can’t be that bad because all the ‘disadvantaged normal’ children who are being forced out of grammars by PP and LAC children must be going there.

share this information to add some actual facts to your posts. If not I don’t believe this is a real post as no one can actually be this inaccurate and hateful to vulnerable children as you have been in your posts.

@Christmasjoy6 - your last paragraph in particular - thank you.
I find it hard to read the OP's posts, and struggle to understand why anyone could have this attitude. She keeps doubling down, though.

Sorry, you think it’s unfair that children who are removed from their families and live in care but somehow have still managed to pass the 11plus shouldn’t have priority? You astound me in your lack of self awareness.

Yes.

There even appears to be resentment that a PP fund supports their opportunity to go on educational trips.
Oh then there's the "dragging down" that they do. Of course.

I’d be really interested to see if any LAC pass the 11+. In our LA (thankfully without grammars) not one LAC passed their KS2 SATs. This is terrible and I doubt very few of this group of children even get chance to take the 11+. I’d like to see vulnerable children being more advantaged - otherwise the socio economic divide in our country is just going to get bigger and bigger. And that is not healthy for our society.