Schools admission criteria......

[LookingforMaryPoppins]

So, my youngest has her heart set on the same grammar school as her sister. She has worked hard and successfully passed the 11 plus. Really proud off her, she is dyslexic so no mean feat.... having just checked the admission criteria, having a sibling at the school makes no difference. Passing the 11 plus is the first criteria followed by children in care, pupil premium and then distance - she is bottom of the pile. If she doesn't get a place, which with that criteria is likely., the option is a sink failing school..... how is that fair?

That's not happening with school trips, @LookingforMaryPoppins .
It's a state school, they can only ask for a contribution. All children can go on the trip, obviously, if not enough pay, the trip can't go ahead, but I find it highly unlikely that any child is excluded from any trip because they cannot pay.
I don't know why you think that these disadvantaged children have some sort of privilege with this.

Sorry that’s laughable and untrue.

PP kids come with extra funding which has to be spent on them. Parents aren’t subsiding anything.

And as intake of PP kids in most grammars are low, doubling that isn’t going to involve high numbers.

Still not sure why you feel your child is entitled to a place above others. She isn’t. Schools make the admissions criteria and looked after kids come first in every school, there are quite rightly so other measures for pp kids in some schools and unis.

You can't actually book a trip unless you pay.

What do you mean school trips can only ask for a contribution? This is secondary school in which lots of trips are organised which are above the means of many parents. I can assure you that many parents do self exclude.

It can be area dependent. In our area , siblings can go to the school even if they don’t get high enough scores, they’re automatically in.

Yes, you can. Fill in the parental consent online, then don't go to Parent Pay. If you can't do that, contact the school and say that you cannot afford the trip. You could pay at the end of the month, pay in installments, or explain hardship and ask for the school to pay.
They do not exclude children from trips who cannot pay.

That's self exclusion. We make it clear that if you cannot afford it, you do one of the things I have explained to the OP.
I'm just challenging her point that these disadvantaged children have some sort of privilege here.

Right, so people just book their children on the £2k ski trip and just shrug their shoulders at the checkout, do they? Nobody is making it clear that not paying is an option.

There are Prince Andrew levels of self unawareness here! Look how many people have voted you as unreasonable! The PP budget is used to pay for those students’ extra curricular activities so they will not be increasing the cost to others - although quite rightly they might be taking places from their more advantaged peers because the whole philosophy of PP is based on the idea that these students are less likely to have parents who can provide those kinds of experiences for them. Your daughter is no more entitled to a place at grammar school than anyone else who meets their criteria. It’s a selective system and some will miss out by definition. If your daughter got a place, someone else wouldn’t and their parents may well feel that was unfair. PP students and LAC miss out on so much so you are being unreasonable to complain if they get a slight advantage here.

😂😂😂
Ski trip!
I knew someone would say that! No. Just the regular museum/science/Geography trips. They're not excluded from those.

Right, so just the educational trips then? That's reasonable.

Yes, that's right, just the educational ones. Not holidays.

@LookingforMaryPoppins, you are not appearing to complain about the issues state of education as a whole. You are objecting to admissions regarding Grammar School education and child in care and pupil premium education who experience significant disadvantages being prioritised for admissions to a school to try and provide equity and equality of opportunity.

I note you have not had the decency to apologise for your complaints regarding children in care. I am hopeful you had a lovely Sunday with your family resting from your working week. I am one of those undeserving Care Leavers. Who never had an opportunity to access education despite my academic ability. I had to wait for widening participation and equal access to be addressed in my mid-twenties even then it was just for undergraduate education.

I was late thirties before I could realistically financially access postgraduate education. Now in my forties I am spending my Sunday’s studying and working towards my doctorate (self funded) Monday - Friday (in a demanding non-teaching education sector), why I am doing this? Sacrificing my weekends?

Your post today reminded me why. It is due to individuals such as yourself who do state that children in care do not deserve to have equal opportunities to succeed in life. That despite the abhorrent experiences they shall have experienced that resulted in them having corporate parents. They are preventing your daughters who are likely to have stable homes and emotional support to access an education that could provide opportunities they would otherwise be without.

I assure you no matter the long term financial gain and sense of achievement and accomplishment care leavers never forget where they came from and carry those scars permanently. I doubt and certainly hope that your daughters shall never experience the life-long consequences of being a child in care no matter where they access education.

Edited for grammar.

Which school is it?
If you won't say that what percentage of pupils are pupil premium?
If your dd is bright enough for the grammar she will get in. Why do you think your dd should be able to leapfrog over more able girls than her due to having a sibling? Grammars are supposed to be about ability. Maybe your eldest wouldn't have got in If less able siblings had leapfrogged over her

Of course the non-grammar school is going to have a lower percentage of passes, the most intelligent pupils have all been creamed off by the grammar. What are the progress scores like?That's what is important.

I find it really hard to believe that someone is so blinkered and unaware of the myriad disadvantages that come with PLAC LAC and PP students that they think they shouldn’t have priority.

Also ‘normal’. That’s just horrible.

any child that isn't in care or pupil premium is on a back foot

This is one of the most staggeringly tone-deaf statements I've ever read on MN.

Thank you for sharing your story, @Wasitabadger . It is one repeated many times over. I genuinely do not know why anyone would resent giving help and support to such children.
It's not like you were given a free house and a car.

It's just unbelievable.

I agree

OP is essentially miffed that the school is applying its criteria. They don’t live in the priority zone and her DD’s test score doesn’t sound strong enough for that to be grounds alone. OP have you checked if moving closer would get you further up the list? Also what’s the in-year transfer admission like?

Thank you, funnily enough I actually experienced homelessness during my Masters studies. I got the keys to a LA house the day after I handed in my PMP.

Proud to say five years later I returned the property to the LA in a vastly improved state despite my then limited income.

I have been fortunate. My then fiancé now husband and his family offered me a home. I could have done as others would continued living in the property and then purchased it via right to buy then made a significant profit either renting it out or selling it. My pesky principles of what I consider to be fair and equitable to other disadvantaged individuals having an opportunity to be safely housed got in the way of my making a financial gain.

@LookingforMaryPoppins it's not just about income.

Quentin who has 2hrs tutoring ever week, might not be as bright as Sally who has zero tutoring and who comes from a 2 parent NORMAL family, with 2 working parents, but still claim free school meals, why, that's none of our business.

Also LAC may live with high earners but come from a very different background.

Finally so what if you have a sibling who goes to grammar too. They are trying to award places on merit whilst levelling the playing field. This thread screams "But all lives matter".

You and your pesky principles! I'm glad it worked out for you, though.
We know that for so many, it doesn't.

Agreed she should be banned for just this